My UN email to my dad, he called the Writing Dept (this is long)

by Pioneer Spit...oh, i mean Spirit 22 Replies latest jw friends

  • Pioneer Spit...oh, i mean Spirit
    Pioneer Spit...oh, i mean Spirit
    Date:Tue, Sep 26, 2006 11:47 AM
    With good advice that I received at this site, I presented my questioning with a soft start... tell me what you think please.

    Yes, thank you, nice pictures. I didn't recognize Uncle ____.Your place looks great. Thanks for including me.

    I'm glad you took note of what I told you about _____ and _____, however it seems that the elders are more concerned with _____'s accusations about her than the other way around, but she's my sister, you know. I know that she'll do the right thing and I think she'll be ok.

    We did get our first snow on the mountains, and we've had such clear skies lately, the mountains are incredible. I'll send some pics.

    I am bothered by something I just read, and I've been thinking about it for days and figured I'd asked you, that you'd probably be able to explain it(?), here's how this came about: I have a co-worker who is an ex-Navy guy, was a Submariner, and in the late 80's thru 2002 worked some security positions in different capacities. We had a conversation about religion and I told him I was raised as one of Jehovah's Witnesses, he said he knows a lot about them. I asked how and he said through a security detail he worked at the United Nations in NY. I asked him what the two had to do with each other and how this came about, and said that the Jehovah's Witnesses would come there. I asked what for (sure he's talking about someone else) and he said that they had a membership for many years and that he talked with several of them briefly a few times, like when he was checking passes. I said, that he must be mistaken about any sort of membership, and he said it was an NGO. He asked why I found his statement to be full of crap, and I explained briefly, but I was sure that he was talking about something else and I didn't want to piss him off too much because he's ex-military and a co-worker.

    So he started to explain it, but then just went to the official UN website, and after a few links (About the UN; NGO Section; Relevant Documents) I was looking at a document that appears to confirm what he said, it's just that he didn't understand why this bothered me so much and I didn't read the document too carefully because what I saw really troubled me. Do you know anything about this? I don't like the implication of this and am trying not to read anything into it.

    my dad's reply:

    GOOD MORNING. This morning I started thinking how you said you were
    bothered by the doc you read. I'm glad you were bothered by that and
    brought it to us, we know that was something that might bother some who
    do not understand our stand in the world and want clarification of that.
    So I went back on the UN web page and did more research. Last night when
    I was on that web page I did not open that "Relevant Doc." page that you
    mentioned. This morning I found the doc. and wasn't too surprised about
    the contents. Said that the Watchtower was granted association with the
    DPI, Dept. of Public Information in 1992 and that association was
    terminated in Oct. 2001 by the Society.

    Just after noon today, I called the Brothers in Brooklyn writing dept.
    about this, just finished a long conversation with them. I was
    informed that the brothers were using the UN LIBRARY ONLY, for research
    for our literature back in the 80's and 90's, and in 1991 they had to
    apply for a permit for continued use of the library, which was issued in
    1992. The brothers saw no conflict with our beliefs and the application
    while we don't support their means of keeping peace we are peaceable.
    In 2001 the permit was cancelled by the Society because of adverse
    remarks by apostates. Isn't Satan shrewd!! ! Can you believe this crap?

    Like I said in my last e-mail, the brothers were only fact finding,
    gaining information related to topics that may be used in WT
    publications. In addition to what I was told no doubt the brothers saw
    they could get as much information through the News Media
    and Internet about the goings on at the UN than being in the UN's

    You will notice too, that the first attachment says much about religions
    that cause problems because of their teachings. The society does not get
    involved with situations like that as you know.

    Anyway, like I said last night, we are no part of the Political affairs
    of this world. In October, we will be in a world wide distribution of a
    message showing that "The End of False religion is Near". Mom and I are
    going to Rocky Point on the 14th for a week to help with that tract work
    there. Richard will be giving the public talk on Sunday, and _____ &
    ____ and ______ will be joining us on Tuesday. You had a hard time recognizing Uncle ____? Can understand that, he had a stroke not long
    ago and he is having a hard time getting back what he can. Like all of
    us here, we are not getting younger. Did you notice mom is blonde, she
    tells everyone its natural. Actually
    it all went grey last year. Aunt ____ is Pioneering again there in RP, Mex.
    Mom and I also and _____ and the boys are regular pioneers too. The
    ______s retired there some time ago. They have the beach house not too
    far out of town there but had a house built right next to the Kingdom
    Hall. _____ is PO of the congregation there in Rocky Pt., there are
    about 35 publishers there. ____ says if ____ were to die she would be
    close to the friends there. Their kids have the beach house and use it
    when they go down to Mex. We have been there and it is a very nice get
    away, right on the beach.

    We do not stay at the ______'s house in town or at the beach but stay in
    our Motor home at an RV park in town on the beach. Sandy Beach is all hi
    rise condos now and the RV parks in town will someday be replaced by more
    hi rises there. Until then we enjoy the beach when we can. One day it
    will all be ours.

    With love,

    Mom & Dad

    my reply:

    Thank you for the info.

    To gain access to the library one has to apply and meet certain criteria, according to the UN website and each paragraph of the statement by the UN rep, these include:

    **This organization applied for association with DPI in 1991 and was granted association in 1992. By accepting association with DPI, the organization agreed to meet criteria for association, including support and respect of the principles of the Charter of the United Nations and commitment and means to conduct effective information programmes with its constituents and to a broader audience about UN activities.

    However, please see below the paragraph included in all letters sent to NGOs approved for association in 1992:

    "Theprincipal purpose of association of non-governmental organizations with the United Nations Department of Public Information is the redissemination of information in order to increase public understanding of the principles, activities and achievements of the United Nations and its Agencies. Consequently, it is important that you should keep us informed about your organization's information programme as it relates to the United Nations, including sending us issues of your relevant publications. We are enclosing a brochure on the "The United Nations and Non-Governmental Organizations", which will give you some information regarding the NGO relationship."

    In addition, the criteria for NGOs to become associated with DPI include the following:

    ? that the NGO share the principles of the UN Charter;

    ? operate solely on a not-for-profit basis;

    ? have a demonstrated interest in United Nations issues and a proven ability to reach large or specialized audiences, such as educators, media representatives, policy makers and the business community;

    ? have the commitment and means to conduct effective information programmes about UN activities by publishing newsletters, bulletins and pamphlets, organizing conferences, seminars and round tables; and enlisting the cooperation of the media. **

    I'm thinking of thousands of our brothers and sisters who were raped, killed, tortured and run out of their homes in Malawi for 10 years because they refused to alter their integrity by even a hair because of a 25 cent political card, when there was really only one party, the government, but perhaps we could have justified that too and called it a head tax and saved them so much suffering. . .

    . . .and here is the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society--not a just 'some witnesses who used the UN Library', but the Faithful and Discreet Slave who applied for, agreed that they shared the principles of the UN in order to be an NGO with the DPI, and were found acceptable by the Scarlet Colored Wild Beast whom they condemn. . .and you find this acceptable because. . . they said it was to use the library?

    We, as Jehovah's organization, also agree with other religions on matters of peace just like the UN--so with the explanation that you were given by the Society today, should we logically gain acceptance and entrance with the religions too and use their information resources?? Would you go to a Mormon temple in order to access their extensive libraries, even if it didn't require 'membership'?

    To me this is like growing up with your mother telling you not to smoke because you'll go to hell, then years later finding out that your mother has been a smoker all along. I remember that the YMCA was taboo (or still is?) even if someone only joined in order to use fitness equipment available there--this was called interfaith and could result in disfellowshipping. What about those friends (including you guys) who wrote to your old churches to remove your names from their lists when you came into the truth, so that you would have really and truly 'got out of her' (false religion)!?!

    Have I missed something? Is the UN not still the Scarlet Colored Wild Beast that is being ridden by a drunken religious harlot, with which we will have absolutely no association? Does not Jehovah provide enough spiritual food to the Faithful and Discreet Slave so that they would not have to agree to spiritual adultery with one of God's chief enemies for information????? Or would this only qualify as 'spiritual heavy petting and loose conduct' rather than spiritual adultery?

    Today I asked elders in the congregation I have been attending occasionally these same questions (sort of) and they said they will get back to me.

    I'm sorry I seem to have gone on, but I am absolutely floored by this. Everything was always black and white on matters such as this.

    I shall await his glorious response. . .
  • Effervescent

    Wow, great dialog! Thanks for sharing that!

  • bigmouth

    Thanks for this Spittle! It floors me just how few within the Org. know anything about this scandal!

    I found Dad's comment here interesting; " In addition to what I was told no doubt the brothers saw
    they could get as much information through the News Media
    and Internet about the goings on at the UN than being in the UN's

    Really? I thought the internet was evil and had no reliable information. Maybe they are learning from JWD?

    Regards Pete.

  • Pioneer Spit...oh, i mean Spirit
    Pioneer Spit...oh, i mean Spirit

    forgot to attach his first email statement:

    I am surprised that you are concerned about the Brothers being in
    attendance at the UN. But remember the scriptures say Jesus followers
    would not be part of the world. That goes without saying that we don't
    participate even in the UN. Remember how in some of the magazines,
    Awake & WT, how there were articles that were written by brothers who
    went out to gather information and they were referred to as reporters?
    The NGO Section is for people from organizations that apply for I.D.
    Passes so they may enter the UN grounds so they can attend briefings,
    forums of those who discuss current issues that are before the UN. They
    are NOT members of the United Nations.

  • AgentSmith

    "Dad" sounds a lot like my father. Very impressed with the answer's, NOT! Waiting with anticipation for the next installment.

  • Jerohobobonadad

    Good letters. I hope you achieve the desired results.

    I've just had 2 thoughts on this. Some people really won't like the second - I am NOT an apologist.

    1) It's rally heartbreaking when your dad wrote "one day it (the beach) will all be ours". Knowing that this will never come true for him, but he will always live in hope. I do admire his faith and ability to believe, however. I think I do not possess these capacities anymore, which is my loss.

    2) I can easily imagine the dialogue that led to the WTS getting on the UN NGO list. I would have thought it cock-up rather than conspiracy. I can easily imagine some twat researcher, with only a couple functional neurons, approaching the UN library desk:

    "So what do I have to do to use the library"

    "You have to become an affiliate NGO"

    "Not sure what that means, but how do I do that?"

    "You sign here"


    Realise mistake 10 years later.

    "Whoops! We joined the "disgusting thing" fan club - better leave and do it quietly or we'll look like complete twats"

    Too late to not look stupid, but I think the WTS joining the UN and having the arrogance to think no-one would mind or notice is giving WTS too much credit. I bet it was some minion who set it all up without realising the full consequences. Again, I am NOT an apologist. It is complete hypocrisy to denounce the UN in the venomous manner that the WTS has, whilst at the same time be affiliated to support the causes of the UN, even if only on paper.

  • sammielee24
    I do admire his faith and ability to believe

    Funny, I just had a conversation of this kind last night. I had felt a slight tug at my innards that maybe I was being too harsh in some of my letters to family when I pointed out changes like the generation of 1914 and blood - when I made them aware of the UN, Malawi and other issues. I can't separate the hypocrosy of the faith from the faith so I can't admire it. Family - children - raised in the society, gave up their youth, their education, social activities, jobs, pensions or other material assets and marriage in order to promote a religion that promised/brainwashed/taught those children that if they did all of that, they would never die but instead they would live in paradise earth.

    Children and families who lived out their lives in fear and guilt, who shunned other family on direction of the Watchtower, who refused to attend family weddings or funerals (general signs of respect) on direction of the Watchtower; children and families who never learned that to love one another without condition is greater than loving an organization and this is never more evident than when the Society directs people to shun their 'friends' and family. In one single swoop.


  • Mackin

    2) I can easily imagine the dialogue that led to the WTS getting on the UN NGO list. I would have thought it cock-up rather than conspiracy. I can easily imagine some twat researcher, with only a couple functional neurons, approaching the UN library desk: "So what do I have to do to use the library" "You have to become an affiliate NGO" "Not sure what that means, but how do I do that?" "You sign here" "OK" Realise mistake 10 years later. "Whoops! We joined the "disgusting thing" fan club - better leave and do it quietly or we'll look like complete twats" ------- Jerohobobonadad, it didn't happen like that. The document was signed by one of the Govening Body (Lloyd Barry if memory serves) not some brain-dead researcher. Mackin PS sorry about the formatting. This crap site won't work properly on Linux. I think it's been coded by a Microsoft fan-boy.

  • freedomloverr

    great letters.

    his next reply will probably either open a door OR will nail that door shut. there usually isn't a grey area - just black and white with jws.

    I hope he stops and thinks about the issue clearly.

  • Fe2O3Girl

    I thought it had been established that there is no requirement to get NGO status in order to use the UN library.

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