If the JWs are suffering...then the WTS is Satan....as the WTS teaches their members NOT to advance in edcucation. To give their money away to the WTS and so on.
Comments You Will Not Hear at the 9-24-06 WT Study (JOB AGAIN)
That?s the paradox, Elsewhere.
I guess this means that most JWs view their lives as being just as miserable as Job.
What happened to the happy people living in a spiritual paradise?
The WTS says that JWs are only true Christians if they are happy but that they are only true Christians if they are persecuted.
(2 Timothy 3:12) In fact, all those desiring to live with godly devotion in association with Christ Jesus will also be persecuted.
Further, the apostle Paul wrote that all of God?s servants?including each one of us?should expect to be persecuted.
No wonder if they think an evil spirit and his cohorts are out to get them
And if bad things happen to non-JWs the WTS teaches that is because they are bad people and have done something wrong just like Job?s false friends said was the cause of his problems.
We are also exposed to Satan?s direct attack. Satan is waging war with the remnant of anointed ones, "who observe the commandments of God and have the work of bearing witness to Jesus." (Revelation 12:17) Jesus? "other sheep" too experience Satan?s attack in the form of bans and persecutions.
Welcome Doubting Bro,
The intellectual dishonesty, circular reasoning, subtle and not-so-subtle manipulation of the flock is something I wasn't able to see in my previous mindset. However, the more I read your reviews, the more I could see it.
That is really what I hope to help people to do in reading the WT publications. My last five years attending meetings honed that technique as well as having access to the internet and able to look up the quotes from non-JW sources with the limited information the WTS gave as to the source. The WT-CD was a good tool in verifying quotes from their own material as well as the online sources of older WT publications.
My motto is that we can hang them with their own words.
About five years ago, I was brave enough to finally post?about the change in the 7,000 year creative day.
Satan directly attacked Job and caused him much suffering. But, the guys that dropped by to "comfort" Job and his own grieving wife were the ones that pushed Job to the point he wanted to die. His wife, I can understand, because as was brought out, she was dealing with the same things (except for the disease) that Job was. But the comforters were the real problem.
I can't tell you how many times we've heard from elders/COs, ect that "if a person can't make it in service or to the meetings, they must be spiritually weak". Isn't that exactly what the "comforters" said? Isn't that what those guys got blasted for? So, why would it be appropriate for those in a position of a "shepherd" to act the same way.
I actually did research on the "troublesome comforters" because the elders were pressuring our family because we were not "doing enough." Opened my eyes to the pervasive lack of Christian love in the congregations.
Hi old friend, xjwms,
Yes, notice that while Satan was supposedly prevented from killing Job, that no such barrier was put up in the case of his children. So Satan either can kill at random or that God permitted Satan to kill Job?s children.
Misunderstanding may arise over Hebrews 2:14 because of the way some translations render it, saying that Satan has the "power of death" or the "power over death." (KingJamesVersion;RevisedStandard;NewInternationalVersion;JerusalemBible) Such renderings could make it appear that Satan has unlimited ability to kill anyone he chooses. However, that is clearly not the case. If it were, he would very likely have wiped Jehovah?s worshipers off the face of the earth a long time ago.?Genesis 3:15.
How true, jgnat,
I've called the brothers at the hall "Job's comforters" more than once
Me too. The elders are taught to flog the sheep just as they are flogged by the COs, the COs are flogged by the DOs, and both the DOs and COs, are flogged by the brothers at Bethel.
Start your zinnias inside from seed earlier in the year, then plant them. It can extend the growing season. It has been cold early this year, eh?
Well, I don?t seek suffering to prove my loyalty nor am I worried that if bad things aren?t happening to be at the moment that I am being disloyal. I just figure that:
(Ecclesiastes 9:11-12) 11 I returned to see under the sun that the swift do not have the race, nor the mighty ones the battle, nor do the wise also have the food, nor do the understanding ones also have the riches, nor do even those having knowledge have the favor; because time and unforeseen occurrence befall them all.12 For man also does not know his time. Just like fishes that are being taken in an evil net, and like birds that are being taken in a trap, so the sons of men themselves are being ensnared at a calamitous time, when it falls upon them suddenly.
Today, Satan may incite family members, schoolmates
Yes, the WTS must demonize people outside the KH which is a cult tactic.
I like House. I watched Grey?s Anatomy for a while but I dropped it off my viewing schedule?Prison Break too though the actor playing the older brother was on a show I liked with a short life (John Doe).
If the JWs are suffering...then the WTS is Satan
It is just like the Pharisees of Jesus? day:
(John 8:44)YOU are from YOUR father the Devil, and YOU wish to do the desires of YOUR father. That one was a manslayer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of [the lie].
(Matthew 23:1-4) 23 Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to his disciples, saying: 2 "The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the seat of Moses. 3 Therefore all the things they tell YOU, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds, for they say but do not perform. 4 They bind up heavy loads and put them upon the shoulders of men, but they themselves are not willing to budge them with their finger.
Good comments everyone, Blondie
The WTS thinks that external problems are driving the flock away from the KH. It wasn?t people outside the KH that were cruel to Job but his so-called friends and fellow believers
Funnily enough , this same point was made by a very devoted dub of my acquaintance. Sadly, the dissonance factor keeps her bound to the Org. like Gollum being under the spell of "The Ring."
I wonder how you found so much to say this week, Blondie..I got nothing from it.
Does anyone know the span of time all this happened to JOB?
I was told 3 months. WHAAAAAATTTTtttt? I was ticked.
And then I think how long I/We have endured and suffered.
Hence, Job?s suffering and its resolution may have occurred within a few months, perhaps less than a year.
Some people think that Job?s trials extended over many years, but the book of Job does not point to such protracted suffering.
The first phase of Job?s trials, the loss of family members and goods, appears to have been quite short. We read: "Now it came to be theday when [Job?s] sons and his daughters were eating and drinking wine in the house of their brother the firstborn." Job got one report after another that he had suffered loss?of his cattle, his asses, his sheep, his camels, and of the servants caring for those animals. Apparently, right afterward Job learned of the death of his sons and daughters, who "were eating and drinking wine in the house of their brother the firstborn." It seems that all of this occurred on one day.?Job 1:13-19.
The next phase of Job?s trials must have taken more time. Satan approached Jehovah and claimed that Job would fail if the suffering touched him personally?his own body. Then Job was struck with "a malignant boil from the sole of his foot to the crown of his head." The spread of this disease over his entire body may have taken a while. And it would likely have taken time for the news of "all this calamity" to reach his would-be comforters, who proceeded to come to him.?Job 2:3-11.
Eliphaz was from Teman in the land of Edom, and Zophar was from an area in northwestern Arabia, so their home territories were not far from Job?s in Uz, which was probably in northern Arabia. However, Bildad was a Shuhite, and it is understood that his people lived along the Euphrates. If Bildad was in his home area at the time, it might have taken weeks or months for him to hear of Job?s situation and to travel to Uz. Of course, it is possible that the three were in Job?s vicinity when his suffering began. In any event, when Job?s three companions arrived, they "kept sitting with him on the earth seven days and seven nights" without speaking.?Job 2:12, 13.
Then came the final phase of Job?s trials, the details of which fill many chapters of the book. There was a series of debates or speeches by those supposed comforters, and Job often responded. After that ended, the young man Elihu offered reproof, and Jehovah corrected Job from the heavens.?Job 32:1-6; 38:1; 40:1-6; 42:1.
Hence, Job?s suffering and its resolution may have occurred within a few months, perhaps less than a year. You may know from experience that difficult trials seem to last forever. Yet, we must not forget that they do end, as did Job?s. However long the trials that we face go on, let us keep in mind God?s support, as reflected in the inspired words: "Though the tribulation is momentary and light, it works out for us a glory that is of more and more surpassing weight and is everlasting." (2 Corinthians 4:17) The apostle Peter wrote: "After you have suffered a little while, the God of all undeserved kindness, who called you to his everlasting glory in union with Christ, will himself finish your training, he will make you firm, he will make you strong."?1 Peter 5:10.
Thanks for the comments Blondie!
I was using example's of charactors such as Job to illustrate the big gulf between the OT and the NT, in one you have God allow Job to suffer - aparantly for some test his enemy gives him - and yet Job and his wife loses their first 10 children (how loving of God) where as in the NT its all God is love and turn the other cheek, but how can it be the same God?
he would very likely have wiped Jehovah?s worshipers off the face of the earth a long time ago.?Genesis 3:15.
Excuse me here but I think the fate of all first century christians is well known . By their own interpretation Jesus did not pick a replacement until 1918 in which case all true believers were imprisoned or persecuted , Revelation is full of satanic attacks on christians . I do remember plenty of scripture stating to suffer for the sake of righteousness and by suffering prove yourself firm in the faith . 2 corinthians 1:7 - 9