Did anyone really buy into the "Universal Sovereignty" issue?

by loli 39 Replies latest jw friends

  • BlackSwan of Memphis
    BlackSwan of Memphis

    Ah, yes I did buy into that whole universal sovereignty issue.

    But the last several months I keep asking myself why would God ever need to prove anything to anyone? And further why would said God ever allow millions of people to suffer, no scratch that, billions, for his Name?

    Either way the whole saviour thing has been slowly making less and less sense.

  • loli

    My point exactly! Whatever "god" is, it is supposed to be PERFECT. Perfection needs nothing to make it complete. (including, in my opinion, actions, ceremonies, sacrifices from humans) thank you!!

  • acadian

    Hi Funkyderek, First let me say I don't believe the bible or any so called scriptures are works of God, but works of man. {not that there isn't some truth,but not all of it) From my own study I've come to the conclusion that all those laws you mention in the Pentateuch were just additions of men. over and beyond the 10. and then condensed by Jesus into just two, both based on love. I believe the whole issue is that man doesn't need government to rule over him, if they follow the spirit of the law as Jesus brought out, and I mentioned above. The story of Abraham is the start of the teaching, "be no part of the world" when he was asked to seperate himself and family from the nations. But like everyone else. I only have someone else's word to go by because I wasn't there, so how do we really know? So for me it boils down to "Harm no one, be giving, show mercy and be forgiving to all, because in truth isn't that the best way live and get along with other's? On another note, I don't believe truth and understanding come from a book, but comes from inside all of us, the Kingdom within. Peace Acadian

  • minimus

    I thought the "universal sovereignty issue" was made up. I never grasped the bullsh*t that the Society spouted. Who started this idea, anyway?

  • funkyderek


    From my own study I've come to the conclusion that all those laws you mention in the Pentateuch were just additions of men.

    Well then, there's not really much point in what you wrote before:"The nation of Isreal choose man to rule over them instead of God's rule."
    If the rules supposedly given by God were really made up by men, then all they did was replace one man's rules with another's.

    So for me it boils down to "Harm no one, be giving, show mercy and be forgiving to all, because in truth isn't that the best way live and get along with other's?

    I'm a little dubious about showing mercy and forgiving everyone. I think evil should be punished or it will thrive.

  • M.J.

    This sounds like a little experiment in creation gone awry, to the consternation of the creator.

    They are making their god out to be a less-than-competant individual.

    One that lost control of his creation.

    One that is confounded by his adversary.

    One that didn't mean for things to turn out the way they did.

    One that is trying to re-assert his control over the mess through a Brooklyn book publishing company.

    When you think about it, this universal sovereignty doctrine is an expression of the JW's own spite against everyone outside of their group.

  • Sunspot

    I hate to admit it, but I bought EVERYTHING hook, line and sinker because I had NO bible knowledge at all when I began to study with JWs! Who was I to argue on things I knew nothing about?

    But this IS typical of the WTS, isn't it? ALL that has now turned out to be hogwash....is ALWAYS the fault of the "flock"---the rank and file JW---and NEVER the fault of those that TAUGHT THEM these things!!!!

    MORE proof of what monumental hideous LIARS and completely dishonest and deliberately misleading MEN they ARE.

  • loli

    Really, then, once you think about it, why do people even gravitate to organized religion? After all, the WTS taught us how to poke holes in all other religions, so, now that we've shaken their core agenda, there doesn't seem to be any TRUE religion out there. Either you belive in god, or you don't. I think to use a religion to force you to "be good" insults the basic human tendency to just be the best person you can be. Imperfections and all, I know I'm a kind, and loving human being. I've just outgrown the notion that I have to be that way to please a cranky deity. Peace to all!

  • daniel-p

    There are several things that always bothered me about the whole sovereignty issue:

    1) If Jehovah gives everyone a chance to serve him willingly, then destroys those who don't, doesn't that defeat the entire purpose? If people know he will destroy them, then they will serve him out of obligation. That right there blows the whole "God wants you to serve him out of love" bit. "But if I don't serve him, I will die at Armageddon or go to Hell when I die." So what's the point of giving us free will, since we don't really have a choice anyway?

    2) Jehhoker legitimizes Stan's rebelious objection by giving him thousands of years to prove his point. Well, if that doesn't demonstrate to those millions of angels that Stan might have a point, I don't know what will. (Does the WT Society give dissenters thousands of years, or even one minute to prove their point?)

    3) Jahaffer suddenly becomes a pussy, giving Satanus thousands of years and the entire $^#%ing Earth to prove his point, with all us humans as his own personal guinea pigs. Thanks, God, for totally screwing us over. You have really shown how "the sons will not pay for their father's error" and "the lowly one will not be trodden on by the wide-in-girth" or some such nonsense.

    What I realized, sitting in the KH lastnight, listening to the book study addressing this topic, was how Satan has already won. He won the entire debate, just by questioning God's soveriegnty. Of course, it only applies if you believe in the whole Universal Sovereignty issue, which to me, doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

  • Wasanelder Once
    Wasanelder Once

    The WT CD Library doesn't go any further back than 1950. That's the earliest I've found any reference to the "Issue of Unversal Sov." Here's the quote. I don't know when the focus was taken off of "Vindicating" his name and place on the U.Sov. issue, but it was discussed as far back as this:



    We will keep our integrity to God in vindication of his universal sovereignty and his right to rule his creation, this earth and all people permitted to live on it. In Theocratic obedience and faithfulness we will march on toward the New World, rejoicing in all further expansion of his kingdom, for there will be no end to its increase even this side of Armageddon. If we keep on sowing his Kingdom message, we shall reap returns for eternity, for God will give his promised increase. Let Christendom go on sowing to the wind by pursuing the futile course of this old world; she will reap the whirlwind at Armageddon. We who have sown to the interests of Jehovah?s Theocracy by Christ will reap the increase of thousands of other Kingdom adherents, the "other sheep" whom the Good Shepherd will yet gather into the "one fold" of everlasting safety.?John 10:16.


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