"....you will be like gods, knowing good and evil."

by Lilycurly 42 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Lilycurly

    I know this has been mentioned before, but I'd like to bring that question to the front again. Not only from a JW's perspective, but also from all other Christians.

    Who lied to man and woman in the Eden story?

    Yahweh God says to men: 17 "Nevertheless of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you are not to eat, for on the day you eat of it you shall most surely die."

    Serpent says: "No! You will not die!
    3:5 "God knows in fact that on the day you eat it your eyes will be opened and you will be like gods, knowing good and evil."

    They eat the fruit....then Yahweh God says what?...."See, the man has become like one of us, with his knowledge of good and evil. He must not be allowed to stretch his hand out next and pick from the tree of life also, and eat some and live forever."

    So, seems like the Serpent told only the truth to them....why is he called the great lier then?

  • itsallgoodnow

    I know. So many things about this story really bother me. Of course it's a complete myth, but the way some religions actually believe it's real, for one, that bothers me. And the way it was the woman's mistake that brought misery on the human race? that bothers me. Knowing good and evil? what kind of people did god want, anyway, people not knowing anything? innocent little children in adult bodies, naked? and the whole not dying in the day they ate from it, it bugs me that people swallow the WTS explanation for it by deciding "day" is not literal. so if "day" is not literal, what else in that story is not literal, huh? and the devil comes out looking best in this story, IMO. at least he didn't lie and punish people for something so petty. I don't think this myth is really going to fly for most people any more. religions need to let it go.

  • Auchmull

    He may have told the truth about the good and evil, but he lied about the not dying -- mixing truth with lies is a great way to deceive.

  • Legolas

    And also, tell me.......What evil/bad?...Satan wasn't 'bad' yet!

  • Lilycurly

    Hmmm...but lying by omission, isn't it just as bad? Isn't "God" guilty of it? Seems like both of them told a part of truth. And even then, like itsallgoodnow pointed out....God said they would die the same day. They did not....he could have said, you will eventually die, but he said on the very day.

    Of course, I take this story as seriously as Sleeping Beauty, but I'd like to hear from those who beleive it is fact.

  • funkyderek


    He may have told the truth about the good and evil, but he lied about the not dying -- mixing truth with lies is a great way to deceive.

    No, he didn't. God lied about dying. Adam and Eve didn't die as a result of eating the fruit. God banished them so they wouldn't be able to eat from the tree of life and live forever. They died hundreds of years later.


    And also, tell me.......What evil/bad?...Satan wasn't 'bad' yet!

    Satan wasn't even invented yet. There's nothing to indicate the serpent in Genesis had anything to do with the character known as Satan.

    It's a story about an incompetent god who wanted to keep his creatures in perpetual ignorance. When they learned to think for themselves, he did his best to make their lives miserable. If they were anything like me, they'd still be glad they did it.

  • 2112

    This is interesting, I've never put that together before.

    Funky Derek makes a great point about their dying. But am I reading it correctly, if God puts them out of the garden before eating from the tree of life, thus makeing it impossable to live forever, or conversly killing them?

  • kid-A

    The myth of original sin in the garden of eden bears striking similarities to the ancient Greek myth of Prometheus. In many aspects, Satan could be considered a benefactor of man who, like Prometheus, seeks to expose the arrogance of the gods by giving mere "mortals" the gift of intellect and free will. Rather tellingly, the angelic name of Satan is "LUCIFER" from the latin meaning "bearer of light":

    From Wikpedia:

    The Prometheus myth bears striking similarities to the Adamic myth of the fall of man. The Promethean fire and the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge can be considered semiotic synonyms; there are clear links between Pandora and Eve. In fact the euphemistic name for Satan's former angelic form, Lucifer -- actually, a Latin name for the planet Venus -- literally means "light bearer," which seems to hint at the image of Prometheus carrying the divine fire down to man. Of course, Satan was not called Lucifer until St. Jerome translated the Hebrew phrase heilel ben-schahar in the Latin Vulgate - many centuries after the account of the Fall of Man was written, making a Prometheus-Lucifer/Satan connection rather unlikely.

    Such a reading seems to identify Yahweh as Zeus and the serpent/Satan as the Prometheus figure. This reading is problematic for Judeo-Christian readers, since it seems to suggest that Yahweh is jealous, vengeful and keen to restrict humankind, while presenting Satan as a Prometheus-like champion of humanity. Many Satanists have accepted Prometheus as an aspect of Satan. (see the article Satanism) However, there is no actual evidence of borrowing between these two cultures. Old Testament scholarship and that of the contemporary cultures (Hittitology, Assyriology, and Egyptology) show that the beginning of Genesis is modeled more in-line with Ancient Near Eastern myth, so if there is any borrowing, it would be more likely that the Greeks borrowed from an ANE culture.

  • daystar

    Many Luciferians and Satanists consider themselves to be rather ultimate humanists, champions of humanity against slave-gods such as Jehovah (the demiurge), etc.

    Also, Serpent Symbolism.

  • Lilycurly

    Also interesting is the fact that God says that the humans "became like one of us", insinuating that there are many gods? I guess the JWs would say he was talking to Jesus....

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