who are these people and why are they sending me this **** (page 2)

Lady Lee

I am sure this is a full time job, based on the crazies that seem to be out there!

some days are worse than others.

But as Scully said, we really appreciate it when you let us know about the kooks, spammers and various crazies

magoo

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....i got a pm from them yesterday......totally unsolicited...worst than the wittnesses

magoo

I got a long, long PM from I_velma just now and happened to notice this thread and thought,"aha,one of those people!" It really did not occur to me to think of it as spam, but I guess it is; I found the 'ragging' on the atheists a bit tedious. I wonder if they chose to mail that stuff to the professed atheists, based on a thread from a week or so ago? How many people from that thread got the mails, I wonder?

magoo

Sent on 27-Aug-06 09:10 Aug 27, 2006
Sent By l_velma
Title From A Branch Of The EXJW Underground
Message Since the Watchtower Society has done as it has, well, then I think this will interest you a lot. It’s a super duper flyer that actually does get them to treat you and others a whole lot better because, when not put into JWs’ hands, which would cause them to throw it away, but MAILED to their homes, it is then read despite the warnings of elders to not read such things. And it’s worded just right.

I know it works this way because back when I was still a JW, I got tired of the lies and mailed copies of a nearly identical item to everybody in my congregation and as many as I knew names of (looked up addresses in phone books) who were in other congregations. Plus, I have heard back from others who did the same and it worked for them too.

After the mailing, I sat back and watched. This happened. At first only one guy in my old kingdom hall of the time quit, but lots of the others very quickly started not attending as much and I learned later that they donated less money too. From what I saw in watching over a couple years it moved them to instead help their own families with lots more of their time and money which is great, much better than giving it to leaders of a group who pay lawyers to defend the sheltering of pedophiles and the like. See at silentlambs.org if you didn’t know about the pedophiles thing.

Anyway, they started treating ex-JWs (their own kids etc) more like actual humans, and after I left I learned some more of those also left. In fact one large family had several teens leave and the parents didn't seem bothered at all about it and they kept phoning and talking to them even though the elders could have jumped them and booted them out too. Why? Because by then it had affected the elders for the better too.

As required, the elders got up and convincingly screamed bloody murder about The Underground, those horrible, bitter, lying Apostates who are “Satan's own,” so forth from the platform, verbally lashing the wind, but as said with time I saw them change too.

The formula for this approach is to mail, sit back and watch, wait a long time and then send some more letters. Best of all, Blitz in as many as you can all at once. Postage is high these days but it's worth it. You do free people in one way or another and in some cases (as I've also had it to happen) even save lives over the stupid blood policy. It’s best you don’t let them know it came from yourself.

Put a return address on each envelope even if it’s but the address for a business, assembly or convention site, the city hall or whatever. It feels really good to be empowered rather than helpless! Amusingly ExJW elder David A Reed in his Blood On The Altar says he used to put return addresses such as for Truth-Or-Consequences, New Mexico or Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, both the names for actual places, mailing them to postmasters for remailing from there or more simply, and more like myself, simply driving to mailboxes elsewhere and mailing from there. David called his underground branch the Order Of Tydale.

Anyway here's the flyer. It’s signed [email protected] a man who also has a website I recommend if you want other flyers and leaflets to counter Watchtower misteachings. His picture is in the PHOTOS part if you’re curious, and he even gives his phone number.

If some of you are now atheist or skeptic, well, you too can just go to his website which is for exJWs and friends from all beliefs to get those items. Over 600 have signed in already. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ChristianWitnesses Just click the blue button at the top to sign in, then click FILES on the left for the items. Sign in, sign out, so forth anytime.

I know we all cope with exiting matters in different ways and I just want you to know you’re not alone, plus that you can become the one in charge of your local situations, empowered and not helpless. So, even if you choose to not use the following item then at least please keep a copy around for possible future use and reuse (again, it has saved lives), though I’d love it even more if some of you also went ahead and used it right now. Email me at [email protected].

Yes, other friends and I have been sharing copies of such items with others all over the world for several years now, helping to cause change here then there, which the growth of the internet has also helped out. But there’s not yet enough of us doing this yet, so as said please help the movement grow. I thank you and urge you to freely copy and use anything here in the flyer immediately following either in whole or in part; also freely translate it into any other languages you may know etc. All the help that we can give and get is appreciated.

DEAR READERS, please respond using my email at the end as I ask where I might be right or wrong about these big questions: Luke 10:7 says "Do not be transferring house to house" and Christ went from a house in one town to a house in another but never preached at one door right after another as some claim. The best witnessing to God's goodness is as Christ did, not just talking but by hands-on loving kindness. Right or wrong? If wrong, why?

COLOSSIANS 2:16 says "Therefore do not let anyone judge you by food, drink, a religious festival, New Moon celebration or Sabbath day." (also read Ga 4:10) Some do judge but accept money, use day and month names, rings etc of pagan origins while denying children and adults the "joy" (Ga 5:22) of birthdays etc. Where Christians have changed previously pagan customs to a Christian aim this is not mixing "darkness with light" but for turning "darkness into light." Again, right or wrong, and why?

Christmas is December 25 the date of the first Jewish festival of Hannukah now varying as lunar based, so Roman Saturnalia may not be its only origin. Christ was at the Feast of Dedication, another name for Hannukah.(Jn 10:22) Santa is not from wizards or a god but St. Nicholas a gift-giver. God began the Jewish New Year's celebration Rosh Hashana at Leviticus 23. Most celebrate New Year’s without drunkenness. Your reply....

Easter was maybe named for goddess Eastre but possibly also "Eastern" as Christianity came from the east. Easter eggs-chicks-baby rabbits symbolize new life as in Christ's resurrection; were not taken from fertility rites! Thanksgiving began as the annual autumn harvest "Festival of Booths" or "Festival of Ingathering" (of crops with thanks to Him) (Lev 23:33, Deu 16:13) celebrated in numerous nations. Even Halloween came from All Hallows (Holy Ones/Saints’) Evening when kids were dressed as martyred saints; many Europeans still do so and it would be wrong to judge them unChristian.

COLOSSIANS 3:14 says the greatest bond of unity is "love" yet some groups call others "false Christians," slander-shun-expel-censor-humiliate or otherwise beat on them for differing on if hellfire is literal/symbolic/non-access-to-God, if God's nature is trinitarian/ unitarian/modalism(Oneness), if Romans 16:1 (“Phoebe is a minister”) shows women can/can't be ministers/deaconnesses etc, at times killing dissenters. Yet Christ helped all and died so ALL might live. Paul at Romans 14 says we enjoy great Christian freedom of expression. Ecclesiastes 3:1 says "there is a place for everything." Instead of numerous and absolute rules on things, common sense and love need to guide our decisions and actions as Romans 14 permits.... Your response is welcome.

1 SAMUEL 14:32-35 says Saul's army ate un-bled meat without punishment as it was an emergency to save life. They just built an altar of repentance due to the Mosaic law of that time. Identical twins transfuse blood to each other via shared placenta and moms' milk includes white blood cells. After birthing moms for years keep cells of their babes’ whole blood. Christ said people need doctors (Mt 9:12, Mark 2:17, Lu 5:31) and Luke was a doctor (Col 4:14) yet a few groups preach against doctors and/or emergency blood transfusions, some or adult even child members dying; yet God wants "mercy not sacrifice." (Mat 12:7) Disagree? Then explain why.

TRUE CHRISIANITY At Ephesians 4:4 Paul said there's only "one faith" meaning Christianity in general, the many modern church name groups not existing until later. Yet today some claim to be the one and only true church. Judges 17:6 says God arranged for everyone in Israel to enjoy freedom and when the tribes said they wanted human rulers He warned of dictatorship.(ISam 8) Today a great cure for such dictatorships is more local autonomy with Christian democracy; the one MOST faithful wise slave and Leader over all Christians is Christ. (Mt 10:23) Disagree? Then tell me please.

SHUNNING: 2 Cor 2:6 says "The punishment inflicted on him by the majority is sufficient for him" which shows "the majority" (not ALL) had followed Paul's suggestion to shun a wrongdoer, and the dissenting minority were not punished. Paul ordered worker Timothy who worked for him, but otherwise Christians obeyed conscience (Rom 14). Yet today some groups shun; also intimidate, censor, humiliate, namecall to enforce compliance from one or more men at their top. Disagree? Then tell why.

MATTHEW 23:10 says Christ is the only one overall Leader for Christians; yet some groups act as told by a man or organizational group of men who interpret the Bible for them although 1 Timothy 3:16 says point-blank the Bible is the only perfectly inspired Teacher. Matthew 10:8 etc say give free what you got free yet some sell books, magazines, flowers etc that despite denials in fact are for profit.

ISRAELITES used flags or banners not tiny idols hoisted on poles as then done by many nations, and this was done to show obedience to God's law saying to not use idols (see at Exodus 20:4). Today virtually every human views flags as emblems for showing natural love and respect, not worshipping. Read Ps 20:5 and Song of Solomon 2:4, 6:4,10 to see that flags or banners are well spoken of. If you disagree, email me why.

CHRIST and Paul both say use Father/Abba/papa/dad (Matthew 6:9; Romans 8:15, Galatians 4:6) not some formal form of God's name, and since God told Israel's tribes His name must never be misused many Christians as well as Jews today commonly substitute "Lord" in respect not superstition; or they use Father etcetera for expressing tenderness and closeness. All the earliest New Testament manuscripts use Lord. Why? For the reasons just noted. So those substituting a conjectured formal name for Lord (YHWH, Yahweh, Jehovah) in their own group translations of Bible verses are not only mistranslating but because of this and when for example some such groups do things like enable child abuse by their clergy, then using God's name is in vain.

PAUL SAYS “BOAST” of the cross as a resurrection symbol over death, (Ga 6:14, 1 Cor 1:17-18), not a "repugnant murder weapon" or stake as some claim. Archaeology proves it was a cross. Forensics researcher F Zugibe showed death by cross takes several hours as Lu 23:44 and Mat 27:45-6 say; not minutes if on a stake as anti-crossers claim. Greek "stauros" means cross or stake, never just stake... Revelation’s 144,000 number can be symbolic as Revelation itself is symbolic and Revelation 19:1 (read it) says a "great crowd" is in heaven. Some may be resurrected on earth but many may serve with Christ from heaven. [email protected] (include the word “REPLY” in your email heading please)

.....this is what i got

magoo

bikerchic

Magoo I got the same one!

I also had a PM from a board member requesting I look into this spammer as they got one too.

Glad that Scully and Lady Lee are on the job, I was gone goofing off.......ahhh the lazy dog days of summer!

ummm back to work....

free2beme

I only respond to people who actually talk about something I care about. These other people you mentioned, might have done that once, I have had a few things like that. It is the Internet, so they can do what they want on open forums like this. I can also choose to ignore them. The thing about this forum that always cracks me up though, as nothing to do with that. I like the random ads that always come up at the bottom of threads. As no matter what I seem to right, there always seems to be a ad for gay marriage.

katiekitten

I had two of the same from I_velma.

I couldnt be bothered to read it. It went on and on and on... Thanks for deleting!

Gill

I've had two messages from the 'ex-JW underground!' I've read a little but I can't see the point of their cloak and dagger methods.

Perhaps the problem with fighting the WTBTS that we have to be annoymous.

Plain talking, up front and honest is the only way to get somewhere and to be honest, I don't really believe even that is going to be necessary soon.

The WTBTS is destroying itself with its obviously stupid methods of total fanatical control.

I'm quite happy to sit and watch at the moment. It's interesting to see, slightly from a distance, family members beginning to have grave doubts and those that have chosen not to have children, careers etc begin to wonder 'What the hell have I done?'

BritBoy

I got a pm from yaddayadda with the title "You're a childish idiot" and no further content. LOL

katiekitten

Oh Britboy - totally unjustified. Youre not childish at all!

who are these people and why are they sending me this ****

Lady Lee

magoo

Madame Quixote

magoo

bikerchic

free2beme

katiekitten

Gill

BritBoy

katiekitten

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Alias	l_velma
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Membership	26 d Since 02-Aug-06 15:25 Aug 2, 2006
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Sent on	27-Aug-06 09:10 Aug 27, 2006
Sent By	l_velma
Title	From A Branch Of The EXJW Underground
Message	Since the Watchtower Society has done as it has, well, then I think this will interest you a lot. It’s a super duper flyer that actually does get them to treat you and others a whole lot better because, when not put into JWs’ hands, which would cause them to throw it away, but MAILED to their homes, it is then read despite the warnings of elders to not read such things. And it’s worded just right. I know it works this way because back when I was still a JW, I got tired of the lies and mailed copies of a nearly identical item to everybody in my congregation and as many as I knew names of (looked up addresses in phone books) who were in other congregations. Plus, I have heard back from others who did the same and it worked for them too. After the mailing, I sat back and watched. This happened. At first only one guy in my old kingdom hall of the time quit, but lots of the others very quickly started not attending as much and I learned later that they donated less money too. From what I saw in watching over a couple years it moved them to instead help their own families with lots more of their time and money which is great, much better than giving it to leaders of a group who pay lawyers to defend the sheltering of pedophiles and the like. See at silentlambs.org if you didn’t know about the pedophiles thing. Anyway, they started treating ex-JWs (their own kids etc) more like actual humans, and after I left I learned some more of those also left. In fact one large family had several teens leave and the parents didn't seem bothered at all about it and they kept phoning and talking to them even though the elders could have jumped them and booted them out too. Why? Because by then it had affected the elders for the better too. As required, the elders got up and convincingly screamed bloody murder about The Underground, those horrible, bitter, lying Apostates who are “Satan's own,” so forth from the platform, verbally lashing the wind, but as said with time I saw them change too. The formula for this approach is to mail, sit back and watch, wait a long time and then send some more letters. Best of all, Blitz in as many as you can all at once. Postage is high these days but it's worth it. You do free people in one way or another and in some cases (as I've also had it to happen) even save lives over the stupid blood policy. It’s best you don’t let them know it came from yourself. Put a return address on each envelope even if it’s but the address for a business, assembly or convention site, the city hall or whatever. It feels really good to be empowered rather than helpless! Amusingly ExJW elder David A Reed in his Blood On The Altar says he used to put return addresses such as for Truth-Or-Consequences, New Mexico or Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, both the names for actual places, mailing them to postmasters for remailing from there or more simply, and more like myself, simply driving to mailboxes elsewhere and mailing from there. David called his underground branch the Order Of Tydale. Anyway here's the flyer. It’s signed [email protected] a man who also has a website I recommend if you want other flyers and leaflets to counter Watchtower misteachings. His picture is in the PHOTOS part if you’re curious, and he even gives his phone number. If some of you are now atheist or skeptic, well, you too can just go to his website which is for exJWs and friends from all beliefs to get those items. Over 600 have signed in already. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ChristianWitnesses Just click the blue button at the top to sign in, then click FILES on the left for the items. Sign in, sign out, so forth anytime. I know we all cope with exiting matters in different ways and I just want you to know you’re not alone, plus that you can become the one in charge of your local situations, empowered and not helpless. So, even if you choose to not use the following item then at least please keep a copy around for possible future use and reuse (again, it has saved lives), though I’d love it even more if some of you also went ahead and used it right now. Email me at [email protected]. Yes, other friends and I have been sharing copies of such items with others all over the world for several years now, helping to cause change here then there, which the growth of the internet has also helped out. But there’s not yet enough of us doing this yet, so as said please help the movement grow. I thank you and urge you to freely copy and use anything here in the flyer immediately following either in whole or in part; also freely translate it into any other languages you may know etc. All the help that we can give and get is appreciated. DEAR READERS, please respond using my email at the end as I ask where I might be right or wrong about these big questions: Luke 10:7 says "Do not be transferring house to house" and Christ went from a house in one town to a house in another but never preached at one door right after another as some claim. The best witnessing to God's goodness is as Christ did, not just talking but by hands-on loving kindness. Right or wrong? If wrong, why? COLOSSIANS 2:16 says "Therefore do not let anyone judge you by food, drink, a religious festival, New Moon celebration or Sabbath day." (also read Ga 4:10) Some do judge but accept money, use day and month names, rings etc of pagan origins while denying children and adults the "joy" (Ga 5:22) of birthdays etc. Where Christians have changed previously pagan customs to a Christian aim this is not mixing "darkness with light" but for turning "darkness into light." Again, right or wrong, and why? Christmas is December 25 the date of the first Jewish festival of Hannukah now varying as lunar based, so Roman Saturnalia may not be its only origin. Christ was at the Feast of Dedication, another name for Hannukah.(Jn 10:22) Santa is not from wizards or a god but St. Nicholas a gift-giver. God began the Jewish New Year's celebration Rosh Hashana at Leviticus 23. Most celebrate New Year’s without drunkenness. Your reply.... Easter was maybe named for goddess Eastre but possibly also "Eastern" as Christianity came from the east. Easter eggs-chicks-baby rabbits symbolize new life as in Christ's resurrection; were not taken from fertility rites! Thanksgiving began as the annual autumn harvest "Festival of Booths" or "Festival of Ingathering" (of crops with thanks to Him) (Lev 23:33, Deu 16:13) celebrated in numerous nations. Even Halloween came from All Hallows (Holy Ones/Saints’) Evening when kids were dressed as martyred saints; many Europeans still do so and it would be wrong to judge them unChristian. COLOSSIANS 3:14 says the greatest bond of unity is "love" yet some groups call others "false Christians," slander-shun-expel-censor-humiliate or otherwise beat on them for differing on if hellfire is literal/symbolic/non-access-to-God, if God's nature is trinitarian/ unitarian/modalism(Oneness), if Romans 16:1 (“Phoebe is a minister”) shows women can/can't be ministers/deaconnesses etc, at times killing dissenters. Yet Christ helped all and died so ALL might live. Paul at Romans 14 says we enjoy great Christian freedom of expression. Ecclesiastes 3:1 says "there is a place for everything." Instead of numerous and absolute rules on things, common sense and love need to guide our decisions and actions as Romans 14 permits.... Your response is welcome. 1 SAMUEL 14:32-35 says Saul's army ate un-bled meat without punishment as it was an emergency to save life. They just built an altar of repentance due to the Mosaic law of that time. Identical twins transfuse blood to each other via shared placenta and moms' milk includes white blood cells. After birthing moms for years keep cells of their babes’ whole blood. Christ said people need doctors (Mt 9:12, Mark 2:17, Lu 5:31) and Luke was a doctor (Col 4:14) yet a few groups preach against doctors and/or emergency blood transfusions, some or adult even child members dying; yet God wants "mercy not sacrifice." (Mat 12:7) Disagree? Then explain why. TRUE CHRISIANITY At Ephesians 4:4 Paul said there's only "one faith" meaning Christianity in general, the many modern church name groups not existing until later. Yet today some claim to be the one and only true church. Judges 17:6 says God arranged for everyone in Israel to enjoy freedom and when the tribes said they wanted human rulers He warned of dictatorship.(ISam 8) Today a great cure for such dictatorships is more local autonomy with Christian democracy; the one MOST faithful wise slave and Leader over all Christians is Christ. (Mt 10:23) Disagree? Then tell me please. SHUNNING: 2 Cor 2:6 says "The punishment inflicted on him by the majority is sufficient for him" which shows "the majority" (not ALL) had followed Paul's suggestion to shun a wrongdoer, and the dissenting minority were not punished. Paul ordered worker Timothy who worked for him, but otherwise Christians obeyed conscience (Rom 14). Yet today some groups shun; also intimidate, censor, humiliate, namecall to enforce compliance from one or more men at their top. Disagree? Then tell why. MATTHEW 23:10 says Christ is the only one overall Leader for Christians; yet some groups act as told by a man or organizational group of men who interpret the Bible for them although 1 Timothy 3:16 says point-blank the Bible is the only perfectly inspired Teacher. Matthew 10:8 etc say give free what you got free yet some sell books, magazines, flowers etc that despite denials in fact are for profit. ISRAELITES used flags or banners not tiny idols hoisted on poles as then done by many nations, and this was done to show obedience to God's law saying to not use idols (see at Exodus 20:4). Today virtually every human views flags as emblems for showing natural love and respect, not worshipping. Read Ps 20:5 and Song of Solomon 2:4, 6:4,10 to see that flags or banners are well spoken of. If you disagree, email me why. CHRIST and Paul both say use Father/Abba/papa/dad (Matthew 6:9; Romans 8:15, Galatians 4:6) not some formal form of God's name, and since God told Israel's tribes His name must never be misused many Christians as well as Jews today commonly substitute "Lord" in respect not superstition; or they use Father etcetera for expressing tenderness and closeness. All the earliest New Testament manuscripts use Lord. Why? For the reasons just noted. So those substituting a conjectured formal name for Lord (YHWH, Yahweh, Jehovah) in their own group translations of Bible verses are not only mistranslating but because of this and when for example some such groups do things like enable child abuse by their clergy, then using God's name is in vain. PAUL SAYS “BOAST” of the cross as a resurrection symbol over death, (Ga 6:14, 1 Cor 1:17-18), not a "repugnant murder weapon" or stake as some claim. Archaeology proves it was a cross. Forensics researcher F Zugibe showed death by cross takes several hours as Lu 23:44 and Mat 27:45-6 say; not minutes if on a stake as anti-crossers claim. Greek "stauros" means cross or stake, never just stake... Revelation’s 144,000 number can be symbolic as Revelation itself is symbolic and Revelation 19:1 (read it) says a "great crowd" is in heaven. Some may be resurrected on earth but many may serve with Christ from heaven. [email protected] (include the word “REPLY” in your email heading please)