by lola28 42 Replies latest jw friends
Lola
I would never make fun of peoples occupations. Some of my dear family have a window/cleaning business.
But I can understand the stereotypes, the encouragement to abandon further education ideals can cause resentment for many people.
46 y 2 m 19 dBy the way Stillajwexelder, someone else may have mentioned this, I've not been online so much lately, but ??? you've had a sex change and moved in with little toe
ocsrf ~ Well said.
To me, the issue is that:
1. This is held out as a goal for all in the truth; DON'T make a career important. Accept a job that lets you make all meetings, do not work overtime and do not sacrifice and put in long hours at school to get a good job. This is, of course, very BAD advice. If you want to be a janitor, by all means, do it. But most would not say it is a job that will provide for a family, health care, retirement and college savings.
2. Those who counsel for marriage, those who intervene in family problems, those who assess a person's "spiritual" health are COMPLETELY UNEDUCATED IN THIS FIELD, and are in fact window washers and janitors. I have washed windows, and done janitorial, though that was back when I was pioneering.
The irony is that this is even contemplated by someone who wants to pioneer; if you actually DO get a degree, you have a much better chance at work that will let you pioneer and raise a family, and maybe even save for retirement.
In my old hall, gone 20 months now, the mantra was simplify, simplify. Yes these are respectable jobs to chose for yourself. However by demonizing higher ed and unjustly influencing the kids not to pursue education these men are placing, forcing, their perceptions. Interestingly the PO likes to tell how he makes 150k a year but you should clean and reach out more. Oh and the contributions are a little off this month so maybe we could put more in the box. Now that I am 36, my wife is 32, we are both full time students, I can only guess it would have been a hell of a lot easier before we had three kids. Truthfully we have never been happier than we are now, freedom is a wonderful thing.
Hi Jim & welcome!
It is very difficult to run a small business and make an honest living. Most janitor and gardener elders and MS that I know have huge businesses because that is the only way to afford one and stay legal. I tried the janitor thing for a short time but the late hours and chemicals wiped me out.
I agree, I'd want a counselor who had some real training and not a janitor who hasn't slept all week and smells like floor wax. Been there and dealt with that.
The job doesn't bother me, its the incongruity of the apointment of these ingnorant, (not educated in the task) individuals. On top of that, most have no social security to fall back on because they are practicing how to clean so they can clean up the earth after armagagum.
Dumb de dumb dumb, choice.
W.Once
I think most of the disrespect for the jdubs in janitorial positions and the like......is for their haughtiness and presumptuousness in assuming that they're well-qualified to counsel people with marital, psychological, financial and health problems. They believe the bible is all that's needed. Well, it isn't enough! Plenty of evidence here on JWD as to their inability to help people. All their training has taught them is to be judgMENTAL and hateful and spiteful. The clergy in most of the rest of Christendom knows and requires that their members be trained in psychology and such, in order to be able to help those of their flock that need counseling.
Frannie (getting down off soapbox now) :)
Likewise with much that has been said. Its not the actual job, janitor, window cleaner or whatever that we deride.
But that these men then put on a suit and come round to your house to counsel you and tell you how to live.
A JW (now an exJW) suffered severe depression, even attempted suicide. Was "counselled" by and Elder who had left school at 16 to pioneer, became a window cleaner and has been for the last 20+ yrs. His "counsel" comprised of telling the brother he had been stupid, and should get back to the meetings and on field service. It was this unloving, uncaring, attitude that eventually led to the brother leavng the JW's.
Whereas the Pastor of my church as part of his four years training, was how to handle such situations.
I have spoken to Elders in the past who have told me they have had to deal with some tricky situations. Most have admitted they felt inadequate in dealing with the problem.
i was a window cleaner...i was good at it..i made plenty of money, did my own accounts, paid my taxes, bought my house, travelled all over the world...
i hated it
but i didnt dwell on hating it because i was doing for jehovah, i only did it 2/3 days a week, and i was able to pioneer which i loved.
i was/am an intelligent man...straight As thru school..pretty much able to turn my hand to anything i would like to..and a major disappointment to my teachers that i didnt pursue further education.
As an elder i was constantly bemused at the inability of elders to grasp the principles behind any direction we were given which is why the directions have to come as rules. As a school overseer, gsc, wt conductor i was aware of the limitations that those in the cong may have with understanding certain things and i used to delight in helping them to come to an understanding either through personal help or fitting illustrations etc...(i am now able to do this as a student at college amongst my fellow students)...the problem is the elders thought that as elders they didnt need to be helped to understand...that whatever their understanding was that it must be the correct one.
so i was intelligent, reasonably well educated, focused, quick thinking, caring, .....
AND I STILL WASNT ADEQUATELY QUALIFIED OR SPECIFICALLY TRAINED TO DEAL WITH THE KIND OF PROBLEMS THAT ELDERS HAVE TO FACE IN THE CONGREGATIONS.
i didnt know how to help someone with depression..except to try and be a friend when i can..which is not enough
i didnt know how to help someone having marital problems..except to recommend my own untroubled marraige..until i had problems and no-one knew how to help me which meant they just left me alone ..which made me insane
i wouldnt know how to deal with a victim of child abuse...or a perpetrator..
people would come to me with problems because they knew me to be caring and sympathetic and would give a listening ear without being judgemental. in truth my abilities were woefully inadequate.
the elders believe, because they are constantly told, that they dont need education because the holy spirit will direct.
it is perhaps the biggest irony that only someone uneducated still believes this to be true
.........having been away from jwism many,many years, since the late 70's, i still remember being told "you don't need education." depend on jah, follow the "rules",all else will be provided. funny.......my bills were never paid by anyone, any "spirit" or organization. i had to provide for myself.
having been made to be a "conscientous objector" by wtbs,elders,parents,etc to the war in viet nam, i was supposed to find a hospital job to avoid prison or military service. checked out a few that were recomended.......never did do it. even though i was 18 at the time, my upbringing as a jw made me do as i was told....when i look back now, hell, i could of gone to college, but was "scared" to go against wtbs, parents....this would bring "disapproval" from all.............heaven forbid.......i might die at armageddon!!!!!! .....you know.....still just right around the NEXT corner......no....no...not that one....the next one......wait a minute.......the next one.....keep going, it IS COMING SOON!!
...........however............in the many different congregations i attended in several different states, being a ms in 3 different congos in 3 different states, i did notice the "educated, financially well off" ms & elders were always, somehow, "better" & in there own little "clique", looking down on, excluding from "social activities" the ones that were "uneducated, poor, janitor class." fortunately, i always made a good living, no not mopping floors, so i was "lucky" blessed enough to be part of the "in crowd."........whoopie.....
even though some who "sacrificed" for jah, were "outwardly" praised, they were actually "looked down on" by the "upper class, educated" elders, leaders of the congregations......burdens on the "well off" brothers...always "needing" something. christian living, loving at it's wtbs best.
.........ok....i'm done.....gotta go make some money
magoo......of the "self supporting" & happy i'm not a janitor class
