Interesting Day at work (JW refuted...er sorta).....

by Tuesday 10 Replies latest jw friends

  • Tuesday
    Tuesday

    I figured you all would enjoy listening to my expirience from work today. A quick background, since my second day at my new job I knew one woman was a witness. She had the Peace tract pinned up to the wall of her cubicle. So when I saw that after the initial gag reflex I knew that one day I was going to have to deal with that as she found out I was a former witness. Enter today...

    We had a department meeting like we do every month, to which they said the August birthdays which I happen to be. For some reason it's incredibly slow at work right now, and the bosses have pretty much given up on what we're doing with all the free time we have right now at work. We can talk about pretty much whatever we want and as long as we want. Usually about movies and so forth, this is to explain the general interest you'll hear a bit later on. Well they announce my birthday and I mentioned how it was my 5th birthday coming up, they all thought it was cute, they asked me why to which I responded I used to be a Jehovah's Witness and never celebrated growing up so now is my 5th birthday. Most smiled, but this woman caught it, which I noticed right away. Basically I thought "Shit, now I have to deal with this thing now." So she comes up to me later and asks "Why do you say it was your 5th birthday" to which I told her what I had said earlier.

    She looked concerned "You left?" I responded that I had and she said "You know I'm a Witness." I said that I knew and I noticed the tract on her desk and she said "I've been a witness for 5 years" to which I said "I was one for 20" She looked more concerned. She asked me why I left and I told her the simple answer "It wasn't for me, it was far too controlling for me and too restrictive" So she comes back with "It is restrictive, you know why God has it that way." Now I'm annoyed, she's been a witness 5 years so she's zealous, and she's already brought up God. Wicked annoying. "God has it that way for protection" to which I said "Look are you happy being a witness?" She said "Yes I am", I replied "Good, let's leave it that way, trust me you do not want to talk to me further on the subject." I walked away.

    So now I'm back at my desk when the person who sits next to me guestures up and she's behind me. I looked up and asked her what she wanted, and she was dead set on making a good witness to me. Apparently I'm "lost" or something. So she asks me again why I left, and says she'd like to help me. I told her again that it was too restrictive and I didn't want to be part of it. She said "Well that's God's way", the person next to me looked annoyed so I knew it wasn't something that was just me being annoyed at so I stood up. I looked over the immediate cubicals and asked "Who here is Christian?" Pretty much everyone turned around and I asked who wants to hear something bibical. About four people said basically "We don't have anything better to do so sure" I told this witness "OK look here's the chance, I told you before that you don't want to confront me on the subject. Bear in mind I was a witness 20 years, and you've only been one 5. Plus I've been studying since I've been gone, so we're talking 26 years of expirience vs. your five years. So if you want to step back now you can." She said that I could continue.

    I turned to all the christians in the "audience" and said "OK so you guys are here basically to tell me when I've lost you and I don't make sense, can you all do that?" They all nodded in agreement. So I started "Do you all believe that Christ is the Messiah?" Everyone agreed including our zealous little witness. So next I said "And why is Christ the Messiah?" pointed directly at said Witness. She answered "Because the Bible says so" to which I smiled knowing this was seriously going to be like taking candy from a baby. "Where in the Bible does it say that?" She asked "You want an actual scripture" to which I said "No just the general points as to why". The Christians were looking rather bothered so I added "Don't worry I believe Christ is the messiah too, I have a point just give me a chance to get to it". So I looked once again at the Witness and she had no response. "Because he fufilled all the prophesy from the Old Testiment, right?" She quickly responded with yes, "I mean that is what seperates Christians from Jewish folk right?" And everyone smiled again. So I asked the Witness if she had read Ezekial chapter 45. (For those who listen to expiriences get ready for some Jay Hess) She said she had read it, and I asked if she remembered any of it. She said not at the moment and I said that I didn't blame her I told her it's basically a telling of the passover and how the lamb is prepared. So I asked "We're in agreement that Jesus is the sacraficial lamb right?" She said of course and some of the Christians said they knew that too. Which was cool. I went on saying that the lamb couldn't have any of it's bones broken, which was the case with Jesus, and it was sacraficed which Jesus was and it was sacraficed on an alter. So I asked "Are we in agreement the alter here would represent what Jesus was killed on or sacraficed on?" Everyone agreed, the Witness had a very know-it-all look on her face which made me smile because basically she had quite literally stepped into a trap. "Now the important thing here is after the Lamb is on the alter the priest does something very important, he sprinkles blood on the four corners of the alter, so we're in agreement that the alter was the thing that Jesus was killed on, everything else that happened in this chapter is symbollic of what happened to Jesus. So for Jesus to represent the Lamb his blood must have been sprinkled on the four corners of what he was killed on. So (name) why don't you believe that Jesus is the Messiah?" She looked confused of course because I had just blind sided her. She said "I believe Christ is the Messiah", and I said "Yes because he fufills all the prophesies in the Old Testiment right?" She agreed, "Are we in agreement that the prophecy about the sacraficial lamb is about Jesus." Another agreement, "What was Jesus killed on", the Christians came in here with the Cross, she said a torture stake (predictably). That's what I needed here "How exactly could blood be sprinkled on the four corners of an upright pole?" I stood up and mimicked Jesus on a stake with my hands high and my feet together, "I don't see blood in four places there." Then I made the Christ pose in the cross and counted my left hand, my right hand, my feet and then I shook my head "Gives new appreciation to the crown of thorns doesn't it (and thank you Jay Hess directly for that line)" She looked INCREDIBLY confused and couldn't answer. Everyone listening started laughing, which was pretty cool. I had just proved their faith and they love that. Unfortunately I just killed hers.

    She started looking kind of pissy and opened her mouth to speak again, I cut her off with what I think is the greatest line ever given that I had told her not to talk to me on the subject (though my wife thinks I killed the story with the line, I still say it was fantastic) "Don't fuck with the Jedi Master" To which she walked off, well more like stormed off. Still REALLY funny, and I thought you'd all appreciate the story.

  • fullofdoubtnow
    fullofdoubtnow

    Well done Tuesday, she will probably give up on trying to "save" you now lol!

    I work with a very zealous jw who will only speak to me if she has to, ie work - related topics, so I wouldn't get that sort of opportunity. She knows I'm da'd, but I doubt she considers me saveable, and she's right.

  • Swan
    Swan

    I don't tell many people at work about my JW past for that reason. Only a handful know. There are no other JWs in our building, but I imagine there are in other locations. We are spread out across the city. If one should be newly hired or transferred into our building and learned of my past, he/she would have to shun me and I don't need that crap at work.

    Kudos to you for taking her on. Wish I coulda been there!

    Tammy

  • Nathan Natas
    Nathan Natas



    If a person shuns you at work you should report them to management & HR for letting religious discrimination interfere with the performance OF THEIR JOB.



    badda boom, badda bing, problem solved! The only reason for an XJW to accept that kind of treatment is if they wish to go back to the WTB&TS.

  • Quandry
    Quandry

    Well, Tuesday, I think you did deal with her. She probably won't ever come over to you any more, especially after your last reply to her in front of your colleagues.

    I guess I would have thought of a few things differently, though.

    When she looked confused, I would have taken the opportunity to enlighten her about the UN scandal and other things that they hide from the rank and file. Perhaps she could have been encouraged to find out more. This would have been especially effective since at the same time, you would have been informing many of the coworkers in your office about the goings on in the WT Society.

    In addition, I remember the humiliating way the elders dealt with my family. How they were abusive, and unkind. How they lorded it over and sought to impress with their "superior intellect" and knowledge. How puffed up with pride they were. How pleased they were with themselves when they knew they had embarrased and berated us.

    Were you an elder? If not, they certainly overlooked a worthy candidate.

  • Twitch
    Twitch

    Tuesday

    Good job!

    Don't take no bs

  • skeeter1
    skeeter1

    The UN scandal can be round 2. But, you better bring up the YMCA swimming pool.

    Skeeter

    p.s. Watch out that you are not seen as the instigator in this, and that it does not create a hostile work environment for her. She could end up trying to turn the tables, and report you to your boss/human resources for religious discrimination. There are anti-discrimination laws, which can protect religious prosecution. You want to reiterate that you are being prosecuted by her. When she approaches you with JW stuff, keep saying out loud that you don't want to be witnessed to....and say this out loud in front of others. When she has tried witnessing to you a few more times, take it to your human resource department. They should shut her up. But, try to put a few seeds of doubt (UN, Blood, etc). in her now.

  • Sunspot
    Sunspot

    Yup----I daresay that she won't be hovering around to get you to open up ever again, LOL! It should end the arrogant boldness disguised as "concern" forever!

    I wonder what your other Christian workmates would have said if they had been told that only 144,000 thousand people would be going to heaven! Seeing a JW confronted with THAT one in a crowd of co-workers----might have been interesting!

    Happy upcoming 5th birthday BTW.....

    hugs,

    Annie

  • Tuesday
    Tuesday
    When she looked confused, I would have taken the opportunity to enlighten her about the UN scandal and other things that they hide from the rank and file. Perhaps she could have been encouraged to find out more. This would have been especially effective since at the same time, you would have been informing ;many of the coworkers in your office about the goings on in the WT Society. ;

    In addition, I remember the humiliating way the elders dealt with my family. How they were abusive, and unkind. ; How they lorded it over and sought to impress with their "superior intellect" and knowledge. How puffed up with pride they were. How pleased they were with themselves when they knew they had embarrased and berated us.

    Were you an elder? If not, they certainly overlooked a worthy candidate.

    Well for most people thanks for the encouragement. My issue here was that I was being bothered, I made it quick but it was a good three times that I had said to her that it is her belief and not mine, the person sitting next to me gave a look of "Shut her up please" to me before I finally stood up. For the purposes of being brief I cut down the entire conversation.

    My feeling about the UN issue is this, she has been in for 5 years. Anything I bring up will be brought to the elders, you know this conversation is going straight to them since she couldn't answer it. Let's say for instance I brought up the UN "scandal" that would've just brought upon an argument that is "Yes" "No" "I'm telling you it is" "No way my orginization would" "They did" "They didn't". My proof is exactly what, some letters online that I could point to that if she brings to the elders they're going to say not to read them. My purpose was not to turn someone away from being a witness it was to shut her up. I can spout JW's connection with Hitler, JF Rutherford's Beth-Sarim, Charles Taze Russell's connection to the occult and you know what that would've gotten me? No where because no witness (at least certainly none that I know) will take that at face value. Has anyone here gotten someone preaching to them about the bible and then brought up Beth-Sarim or the UN scandal and the witness stopped dead in their tracks. I'm sure they might have said "I'll have to research that" which she may have, but I doubt highly she would.

    As for my last comment, was it mean and sarcastic, yup. Was it retalitory, yes it was. Was it hilarious, everyone around me thought so as well. Once again to reitterate I can spout off factual information till I'm blue in the face and usually a Witness will say it's "speculatory" and apologists will say what.... everyone together class... "The Light Gets Brighter" <copyright: Watchtower Bible and Tract Society> But if you do it from the bible the only thing they can say is that you know more about the bible than they do. Which is exactly what I wanted, I want her to say "he knows more about the bible than me, I don't want to lose another bibical debate, especially in front of people so it doesn't reflect badly upon the society" and now I have a work free environment.

    Finally for the HR stuff, if she leaves me alone I'm not going to go to HR. She's already in violation of company policy by having the tract on her cubicle. People have been spoken to about having crosses or any religious iconography on their desks. I have a witness saying that she approached me and I tried to stop her more peacfully more than once. I'm not worried. I'm moving in six months anyway, so it really doesn't matter what happens at this job, and if I get fired FANTASTIC I can collect until then, whatever man.

    The last comment there "Were you an elder? If not, they certainly overlooked a worthy candidate" hmmm, seems like what's good for the goose is good for the gander there huh? I have a response for you on that, but it's not much different than what I told the Witness today, well at least the first part.

  • darth frosty
    darth frosty

    Nthan I love your line about if a witness tries to shun you at work, go to HR on the basis of them using religous discrimination on you. Beautiful

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