Shadow,
Thank you for at least responding. I appreciate it. I really didn't see where what you wrote provided Scriptures supporting the doctrine on pre-baptismal requirements, including Mark 8:34 which doesn't indicate dedication to God as a baptismal requirement in any way (as I explain later).
Shadow: Do you believe there are requirements for baptism? What do you believe is the purpose of baptism?
(1) Do I believe there are requirements for baptism? Yes.
Acts 2:37-42; 3:19-26; 17:29-31; 26:19-23 all show that repentance and conversion are requirements for Christian baptism. As I said, I can find Scriptures to support this, but I cannot find any scriptures to support anything beyond this. Certainly nothing in the Bible says we have to disown ourselves and follow God PRIOR to baptism. In fact, nothing in the Bible says we have to disown ourselves at all except to follow Jesus.
Luke 9:23, a parallel to Mark 8:34, says, "Then he went on to say to all: “If anyone wants to come after me, let him disown himself and pick up his torture stake day after day and follow me continually." This does not indicate a once for all time act, such as dedication per JW dogma. Not that Mark 8:34 is a Scripture indicating dedication to Jehovah as a requirement that "must" be met prior to baptism, in any case.
I do not believe pre-baptismal requirements exceed the requirements offered by the Bible by one sentence, which is why I asked for Scriptures to support the JW baptismal requirements.
(2) What do I believe is the purpose of baptism?
Romans 6:1-7
Consequently, what shall we say? Shall we continue in sin, that undeserved kindness may abound? Never may that happen! Seeing that we died with reference to sin, how shall we keep on living any longer in it? Or do YOU not know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? Therefore we were buried with him through our baptism into his death, in order that, just as Christ was raised up from the dead through the glory of the Father, we also should likewise walk in a newness of life. For if we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we shall certainly also be [united with him in the likeness] of his resurrection; because we know that our old personality was impaled with [him], that our sinful body might be made inactive, that we should no longer go on being slaves to sin. For he who has died has been acquitted from [his] sin.
According to this does baptism symbolize death to a former course of life? Yes. Would that death to a former course take place prior to baptism, or at the point of baptism? At the point of baptism, not prior to it.
Galatians 3:26-29
YOU are all, in fact, sons of God through YOUR faith in Christ Jesus. For all of YOU who were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female; for YOU are all one [person] in union with Christ Jesus. Moreover, if YOU belong to Christ, YOU are really Abraham’s seed, heirs with reference to a promise.
Is union with Christ a major purpose of Christian baptism? Yes. Is this union prior to or pursuant to baptism? Pursuant to baptism.
Ephesians 4:1-6
I, therefore, the prisoner in [the] Lord, entreat YOU to walk worthily of the calling with which YOU were called, with complete lowliness of mind and mildness, with long-suffering, putting up with one another in love, earnestly endeavoring to observe the oneness of the spirit in the uniting bond of peace. One body there is, and one spirit, even as YOU were called in the one hope to which YOU were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all [persons], who is over all and through all and in all.
"Oneness of spirit" is possible through baptism into Christ, this is a purpose of baptism. Does this "oneness of spirit" precede the calling, or is it a result of the calling? A result of the calling.
Colossians 2:8-12
Look out: perhaps there may be someone who will carry YOU off as his prey through the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ; because it is in him that all the fullness of the divine quality dwells bodily. And so YOU are possessed of a fullness by means of him, who is the head of all government and authority. By relationship with him YOU were also circumcised with a circumcision performed without hands by the stripping off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision that belongs to the Christ, for YOU were buried with him in [his] baptism, and by relationship with him YOU were also raised up together through [YOUR] faith in the operation of God, who raised him up from the dead.
A major purpose of baptism is a relationship with Jesus Christ, it is the Christian circumcision. Do Jehovah's Witnesses have a relationship with Jesus Christ? If so, what form does it take?
1 Peter 3:21-22
That which corresponds to this is also now saving YOU, namely, baptism, (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the request made to God for a good conscience,) through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. He is at God’s right hand, for he went his way to heaven; and angels and authorities and powers were made subject to him.
A major purpose of baptism is the request to God for a good conscience. Does this request precede baptism, or is baptism the request? It is the request. Does it require dedication? No.
I believe what the Bible says. That is why I asked you to show the Scriptures that support JW requirements for baptism. Neither my father, nor the Circuit Overseer could do so. I do not believe it can be done, but I am very hopeful someone will at least try.
Respectfully,
AuldSoul
