National Healthcare for the USA

by sammielee24 348 Replies latest jw friends

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  sammielee24

  Asked why such an inefficient and wasteful health care system persists, Dr. Tranquada indicated that insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies profit from the waste, which they protect and defend. When the Clinton administration proposed moderate health care reform back in 1994, the insurance industry raised $30 million to oppose it. They were joined by the American Hospital Association, which raised $20 million, and by pharmaceutical companies, which raised comparable sums. Their money bought deceptive media advertising that mislead and confused the American public.

  Dr. Tranquada endorsed SB 840, which is now under legislative consideration in Sacramento. If passed, the bill, sponsored by State Senator Sheila Kuehl, would save California $8 billion a year in health care costs while permitting the State of California to extend quality health care to all Californians.
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  LittleToe

  Derek:

  If the minimum wage is $10/hour and there's no profit in paying baggers more than $6/hour, there won't be any baggers, simple as that.

  That's where a company decides whether it can achieve a break-even point, or where it may still retain it as a loss-leader, especially if the customers' expectations have been raised and it's commonplace. One of the few exceptions to cutting back on such an expectation is perhaps Easyjet et al who cut back on inflight service in exchange for a no-frills branding.

  That still shouldn't affect the idea of a minimum wage, though, i.e.:

  The "ethical grounds" were noble but misguided.

  That would be a subjective notion. Why is it misguided to believe that one occupation is worthy of breadline wages and another above or below it? If the community is faring well, why shouldn't eveyone be permitted to at least eat, if they are willing to put in a days work? While I have no difficulty with the Capitalist idea that certain professions are more desirable and are recompensed accordingly, I do have difficulty with the idea that taking an ethical stance is "misguided". IMHO it's merely being responsible.

  I agree that market forces often drive companies to seek cheaper labour, but it's that the whole ethos of "fairtrade", which brings us back to Six's comparison to sweatshops. If the Western world wants goods but also wants to meet the ethical challenges of letting their labour force eat, then there's a cost attached which most people are willing to pay.

  Lisa:I can assure you that even our lowest paid Doctors are getting far more than a "meagre (??)" $60k. They are also charged less than your's for their education and training. I've never understood that, as you must surely have more trainees walking through the doors of your educational institutions. You'd think it would be cheaper
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  LittleToe

  Sammie:

  I have to question how much would be saved by the USA. I suspect the cost would ultimately even out, as government management is at best sloppy compared to profits being creamed off by private companies, as has already been stated. The main difference would be a wider safety net.

  Our own NHS would be more efficient if we reduced the kind of services offered to those of critical illness. We've lost focus and have gone overboard by adding more and more services, just because we can, and it's reaching a crunch point. Further, we have a lot of wasted time due to hypochondriacs and missed appointments, and I suspect that it wouldn't be any better that side of the pond.

  When you pay for something you do tend to value it more. However when you can't afford something, and the alternative is detrimental to your quality of life, you're going to feel the pinch.

  It's a two-edged sword.
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  sammielee24

  On an added note and my own personal observation which appalls most average people even more - when there is a terrorist attack as happened in England last year, Spain last year etc, and people were injured severely, taken to hospitals, worked on and their lives saved and then facing a few years of rehab and drugs etc - well all of those injured in Spain and England, got treatment to save your life plain and simple. Didn't matter if the guy on that bus next to you was a CEO making a million a year and you were scuffling along trying to do your best on $20,000 - you are brought to the nearest hospital and given equal care and treatment.

  When the attacks happened on 9/11 what do you think happens to those in a pay for service health care society? Well, if you can walk (think really badly injured but your legs are still attached), you would have been brought to hospital, looked at and at the end of your stay and rehab, you would if you didn't have the best in health insurance, receive huge bills you would now struggle to pay. So in essence, in a world fearful of terrorist attacks, just remember that for those who are victims in the USA - do not have equal and national care.

  sammieswife.
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  sammielee24

  so that only those who wanted to pay for other people's healthcare would have to?

  Well, I guess this would work but could we do the same with education? No kids? No taxes into the education system. How about property taxes? Don't own a home then you shouldn't pay taxes even if those are bumped into your rent. How about taxes toward the military? If you don't support it then why should you have to pay?..We take care of each other in many ways in what we consider a 'civilized' society - we pay taxes at all levels to ensure we have roads, malls, schools etc - why is health care so different? I keeping hearing that people would be lazy and why should I have to pay for that bum who can't afford his own? The amount already paid by everyone's tax dollar NOW is higher than it would be with NHC. Why do people think that anyone without insurance is lazy or somehow undeserving? 53% of people earning (by the way for anyone that can't figure that out - earning = working ie earning a living) between $20,000 -$38,00 DO NOT have insurance - that's over half! It isn't a choice between that one Big Mac a month or that KFC meal deal for $20.00 bucks a month - it's the difference between your electric, your gas, your rent, your medicine, your food, your kids shoes. sammieswife.
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  sammielee24

  I think we should have affodable pet insurance also! Have you been to the vet lately

  Swalker - I know there is pet insurance but I've never checked it out. I will tell you this - I always had my dogs vaccinated and groomed and I had one dog that had a recurring ear infection. The cost to get that treated was phenomenal..the real cruncher though was the cost of treating her diabetes. For some people it gets even more difficult when they are faced with the cost of their sick pet and they don't have the money. sammieswife.
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  sammielee24

  I have to question how much would be saved by the USA

  Hi LT....I am taking my information from all the reports and stats that have been made over a lot of years. What happens in the USA is that abt 38% of all the costs are administrative and thats in part due to the bonuses etc of the CEO's, as well as the paperwork. In a NHS, you have limited forms and administration is streamlined so from that perspective alone, the costs could be reduced by half. Did you know that the top 3% or so of the wealthy have NO insurance? That's because from the standpoint of investment, it's a poor return for them. They can plunk that $20,000 a year into a market fund and increase the value of that dollar. They have the money to handle any cost and there are a gazillion doctors that they will pay 20x any other doctor to give them the care they want, when they want it. The poor cannot afford it - and since over half of those lower middle income people also can't afford it - it becomes a matter of class. There are numerous articles written on class and health care (one is in the NY Times) and it becomes obvious after a while just how sick it all is. The way I look at it is this - I'm driving down the highway and I look to my left. There I see 3 kids in the back of a 1995 Dodge van..mom and dad in the front. Then I look to my right. There I see 3 kids in the back of a 2006 Cadillac SUV..mom and dad in the front. They disappear ahead of me. Some time later I turn a bend in the road and theres been a massive accident - the 2 vehicles have collided. IMHO - I stop and help all the people there in any way I can regardless of who they are, where they came from, what kind of house they live in, how much money they have. The ambulance comes and rushes them to the same hospital and they work to save the lives of everyone involved equally. That to me is what National Healthcare is - equal healthcare for all regardless of income, gender, social status or employment - a life is a life. Without national healthcare, a life becomes based only on the value of the dollar. That accident would have resulted in those people being serviced by the dollar value of their health insurance and that includes speed, quality of care and results. Without national healthcare, your life becomes automatically worth less without insurance and care. Your childrens lives, your parents - they are all less than those making more money who can afford health care insurance and services - that is a fact. It has become a class warfare system and game of roulette..sammieswife.
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  acadian

  Is this national healthcare plan going to be forced on those who don't want it, even if they don't have healthcare insurance? Anybody know? Acadian
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  SixofNine

  sammielee24, I love what you're doing here, but take a little mercy on us, paragraphs, please!
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  Pleasuredome

  There is a reason I called it Hillcare. When Hillary Clinton was the first lady over here, we got a very good look at what form socialised medicine will take if it is ever mandated over here. She got together with the major players in the heath care industry over here in secret and put together a proposal that was so rife for corruption and waste that it deserved the abortion it underwent.

  getting into these conspiracy theories are you, forscher? but then it only stands to reason