National Healthcare for the USA

by sammielee24 348 Replies latest jw friends

  • siegswife
    siegswife

    (((Lisa))) Thanks...I'm not having fun, believe me...

    For many reasons I doubt that a socialised health care system would work well in this country. If you factor in the inevitable incompetence of the administrators of such an undertaking, along with some of the considerations you brought up it would be a bust.

    I'd be happy and think it would be a big help if it would somehow be federally mandated that employees of small companies be given the opportunity to buy into group insurance plans. We looked into private health insurance and the deductible at the rates we could afford didn't make it worth it to us. The best one we found had a $1500 deductible per person per year. Up until this past year there's no way that we would even come close to that. That's changed now but we had better uses for the $270 and some odd dollars that we'd be paying every month for insurance that we (thought we) would probably never use.

    It's nice that you are in a better position because of being productive, but there are plenty of productive people who don't have the means or the access to affordable health insurance in this country. Most of those productive people are the very ones who make it possible for some others to afford the finer things in life while they themselves struggle to make ends meet.

    Does that really make you better than we are?

    Lea

  • chachasmum
    chachasmum

    I recently had to drop my health care insurance. I could no longer afford the premiums so now i join the ranks of the folks without coverage. Cross my fingers and hope i never have to have surgery.

  • LDH
    LDH
    It's nice that you are in a better position because of being productive, but there are plenty of productive people who don't have the means or the access to affordable health insurance in this country. Most of those productive people are the very ones who make it possible for some others to afford the finer things in life while they themselves struggle to make ends meet.

    Does that really make you better than we are?

    Hi Lea,

    That wasn't my argument so please don't take it there. My statement was all other things equal, a PRODUCTICE member of society is a BETTER HUMAN BEING that someone who leaches off of the effort of others. Yes, that makes some people better than others. ::::hears socialists like Six shuddering::::

    We are already in a health care provider shortage in this country, you wanna see it skyrocket, set a single vendor that dictates that after 8 years of med school and another 4 finishing residency, a DR. makes no more than say, $60,000. Yea right. How many student loans you gonna pay off with that?

    While reading this thread it is so clear that people don't know or understand their options. If your COBRA runs out, you are usually eligible for a ported (convertible) health plan if you're insured with one of the majors carriers. When you run out of COBRA you don't run out of coverage always.

    I ;recently had to drop my health care insurance. I ;could no longer afford the premiums so now i join the ranks of the folks without coverage. Cross my fingers and hope i never have to have surgery.

    Did you look at moving to a catastrophic plan? SOMETHING is better than nothing.

    Lisa

    Better than you Class (JUST KIDDING)

  • juni
    juni

    Whewy!!! Hi Lisa! How's it going? I agree with you w/the drs. and what their salary would be. And the whole idea of national healthcare. There are safety nets. Just have to keep prodding and inquiring about them. It is a problem though for many. And a hot potato subject like religion and politics.

    But when you consider how horribly run anything by the government is - most people would think twice about nat'l healthcare. You'd have months waiting times to get in. And then long waits in the waiting room. And then drs. who really don't give a flip.

    Juni

  • funkyderek
    funkyderek

    SixofNine:

    .....I think everybody should be helpful where possible. But I don't think people should be forced to do so.

    I do, especially policemen and firemen and air traffic controllers.

    They have to be, because it's their job. They have agreed to do that under a binding contract and are therefore required to do so. Similarly, I don't think people should be forced to bring me food, unless they're waitresses.

    I think 911 operators should be forced to be not just helpful, but efficient in providing that help as well. Sure, the whole fam could pitch in when little Timmy falls down the well (thanks Lassie! arf!), and sure, Bob across the street does have a kickass new winch he's been dying to try out, but I think Timmy's more likely to be happy and productive (also less dead or crippled) in the future if I call 911.

    I agree. I also think that where possible, the costs of rescuing Timmy should be recouped from the person who owns the well, or from his negligent parents, or whoever is deemed responsible.

    On a more serious note, abolishing the minimum wage would allow far more people to find employment.

    Why? Do you mean in sweatshops, and until there are no longer buyers for their sweatshop products?

    No. I mean jobs that simply aren't worth $10 dollars an hour. In the absence of cheap labour, some low-end jobs (such as dishwashing) will be replaced by machines, while some (such as grocery-bagging) will simply be dropped.

    Those who work hard could then escape the poverty trap.
    You mean the way people in sweatshops so often escape the poverty trap? My god man, look at your own language: "poverty trap".

    It's a poverty trap because people who are currently worth less than the mandated minimum wage simply can't get a job. If they could get a job paying less, they could then gain experience allowing them to get a job that pays more. And so on. Most people's careers progress this way.

    Those who are unwilling to work would likely starve.

    Or they might just kill you and take your food. Most people aren't willing to starve rather than work (even if that work is stealing from you), I think this is well established fact.

    There will always be people who would rather take my money than earn their own. I don't think the solution is for the government to take that money from me and give it to them.
    Those who are unable could rely on the compassion of their friends, family and community.

    You say that as if you've solved the worlds problems, Derek. Voila! Er, but what if those friends, family, and community have no, or not enough, compassion? A country needs happy, (but especially) productive people to thrive, and all succesful countries use a concept known as economy of scale to find ways to produce those happy productive people.

    I don't think compassion should be forced on people.

    More later maybe.....
  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    I'm intrigued by your comment about grocery baggers. It's a supply and demand world, with value added services employed to meet the gaps in customer experience.

    Why should the time and labour of an individual who spends their time employed in such a manner be deemed worthy of a below-minimum wage? Aren't you completely circumventing the ethical grounds upon which minimum wage was designed?

    But at least you aren't going as far as Lisa, who seems to want to develop services on a might-is-right model akin to Communist China.

  • juni
    juni

    LittleToe models Calvin Klein underwear.

    OOOOps! Wrong thread.

    Heh guy. Have a good one!

    Juni

  • funkyderek
    funkyderek

    LittleToe:

    I'm intrigued by your comment about grocery baggers. It's a supply and demand world, with value added services employed to meet the gaps in customer experience.

    Absolutely. Some shops have found it worthwhile to have someone fill this gap and I'm sure you agree that they should be free to do so or not.

    Why should the time and labour of an individual who spends their time employed in such a manner be deemed worthy of a below-minimum wage?

    Precisely because it's a "supply and demand world". There is some economic value in having grocery baggers. Customers will be happier and can normally check out slightly quicker. However, there has to be a wage level above which it is not economical to have someone do that job, where the slight advantage is outweighed by the cost. There is no reason to believe that this point will coincide exactly with what a government has determined minimum wage should be. If the minimum wage is $10/hour and there's no profit in paying baggers more than $6/hour, there won't be any baggers, simple as that.

    Aren't you completely circumventing the ethical grounds upon which minimum wage was designed?

    The "ethical grounds" were noble but misguided. Some people believe that an employer needs a fixed number of employees to accomplish a given task, and that if low-wage workers are given mandated increases, all that happens is that the employer's profit goes down or the cost to the customer goes up. (Of course, this in itself can be enough to put someone out of business.)

    In reality though, if the price of employing someone goes above a certain level, it is no longer economically viable to employ them. It may be cheaper to have the process automated, to do without, or to move production overseas. This is invariably what happens when minimum wage laws are introduced.

    You simply can't mandate the price of anything, including wages. People will only pay what they perceive to be a fair price. If something is too expensive, they will do without. No amount of legislation will change this.

  • sammielee24
    sammielee24

    Hey Rabbit..there are a number of lists - type in your state and national health care and it should bring up a list of who's for it..I'm not on my own comp or I'd pull up a list for you - but try that out. I just watched CSPAN yesterday and what the current government is doing about and that answer is - nothing. They are more concerned with the IT systems and standards at this point and not at one time did they address the lack of insurance and health care for the millions out there.....sammieswife

  • sammielee24
    sammielee24
    set a single vendor that dictates that after 8 years of med school and another 4 finishing residency, a DR. makes no more than say, $60,000. Yea right. How many student loans you gonna pay off with that

    I'm not really sure where this stuff comes from at times.....but in all the research thats out there this is not true. If that were a fact then I'd guess you wouldn't have doctors working in any country. Here's the reality - companies are moving out of the USA - outsourcing is a major problem and why? Soaring health insurance costs..People are also running OUT of the USA for care and why??? Soaring health care costs. Why do millions of USA citizens have to buy their medicines from Canada?? Soaring health care costs...

  • Los Angeles Times: U.S. Employers Look Offshore for Healthcare. As costs rise, workers are being sent abroad to get operations that cost tens of thousands more in the U.S. By Daniel Yi. Excerpts: After going overseas to outsource everything from manufacturing to customer services, American businesses — pressed by rising healthcare costs — are looking offshore for medical benefits as well. A growing number of employers that fund their own health insurance plans are looking into sending ailing employees abroad for surgeries that in the U.S. cost tens of thousands of dollars more. Carl Garrett of Leicester, N.C., will fly to a state-of-the-art New Delhi hospital in September for surgeries to remove gallstones and to fix an overworn rotator cuff. His employer, Blue Ridge Paper Products Inc. of Canton, N.C., will pay for it all, including airfare for Garrett and his fiancee. The company also will give Garrett a share of the expected savings, up to $10,000, when he returns. Garrett chose to go abroad rather than have the operations locally, where he would have paid thousands of dollars in deductibles and co-pays.

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