by Fatfreek 21 Replies latest jw experiences
Well I guess we can agree to disagree, since it is clearly dependent on the individual congregation.
As I mentioned, the MS who committed suicide (with a shotgun to the head, no less) was given a full JW funeral, with about 350 in attendance.
I know of at least 2 JW suicide attempts, in the Toronto area, people I knew, one in the 80s and one in the early 90s. Neither were DF'd. Obviously is left up to the
judgement of the local BOE.
Thanks for that info jgnat - they make it a matter of conscience pretty much, which means they won't forbid it because there are no biblical grounds, but that it will be frowned upon in a big way.
Have they explicitely said that suicide attempts are grounds for DFing? If so, citation please.
Yes it was mentioned at my judicial committe which decided to disfellowship me. Possibly the two people you mention were repentant - if the person is repentant then they do not have to DF. I was not repentant and said that I would probably try again. I was 16 at the time, pretty much a child. Can you imagine punishing a child so distressed they tried to kill themselves in earnest?
fatfreek - I hope that the one close to you has fully recovered and is learning to love life again.
Can you imagine punishing a child so distressed they tried to kill themselves in earnest?
What they did to you was absolutely disgusting. The cases I referred to were very troubled young adults who actually stayed in the borg, which is ironic
since I am sure being raised as dubs was what led to the depression and suicide attempts.
since I am sure being raised as dubs was what led to the depression and suicide attempts
Oh and it was absolutely that in my case too. In fact I don't think I would be still alive if I had stayed in.
DFing someone for trying to commit suicide is one of those unwritten rules. I have not been able to find anything in the WT publications or the elder's manual. I'm sure some elder bodies may interpret it as such.
I have dealt more with the issue of funerals for JWs who committed suicide. In each case the funeral was not held in the KH but an elder conducted the service. Each person was told they had to decide whether they would attend or not. Actually most attended.
That is the cruelty found in unwritten rules. The elders feel they exercise authority higher than God's.
From the elder's manual
Attempted suicide may be the result of deep despair or
major depression; deal carefully and compassionately with
such a person. In most cases a judicial hearing is not
required. (Ps. 88:3, 17, 18; Prov. 15:13; Eccl. 7:7; g90
9/8 pp 22-3; w90 3/15 pp. 26-30; w90 3/1 pp. 5-9; w83
8/1 pp. 3-11)
http://dbhome.dk/carlo/unit5a.htm
(I interpret that this means the person needs support not to be booted; could certain elders interpret this as meaning every case needs a judicial hearing, yes)
suicide is a disfellowshipping offence. It is considered murder
This is an interesting viewpoint and English law, for a long time, held the same view.
But murder is the taking of life without consent. If it is our life we take and we consent to do this, then it is not murder.
In any case it is always very sad when someone reaches the point where they cannot see a way forward and feel that suicide is the only move left.
Tragic but not at all rare.
Blondie - thanks for the research and quotes. Maybe the elders in my congregation got their literature delivery late - or more likely didnt read their watchtower at all! My circumstance was bout a year after this info.
For the record I recall the way I was dealt with at the time as being anything but compassionate.
Elders can have all the WT info and still do it their way. I have found that it is older elders and those directly taught by them that perpetuate the myth that attempted suicide is a DFing offense. So much goes on behind the scenes with the elders, the CO, the DO, and Bethel. They lie to each other whenever they can and it benefits themselves personally.
Blondie
Thanks for your comments in this thread. In the congregations I was in it was a given that a suicide attempt was grounds for disfellowshipping. It displayed reckless disregard for God-given life and was equivalent to murder. The thoughts usually moved from there to the resurrection of aborted babies, stillbirths and other such speculation.
Like good little dubs we believed what we were told, no need to research for ourselves.
My best mans 16 year old son gassed himself about 5 years ago in Tauranga.(Dads an elder) The funeral was held away from the Kingdom Hall and I think something by Pearl Jam was played through the P.A.! I had some idiot come up to me tut-tutting and saying that XXXX had got involved in listening to debasing music. I remember the joy on the day when that little boy was born.
I'm so sorry to hear of your experience Crumpet, you show a kindness from experience to others on this forum.
Pete
(((((( Crumpet ))))))
just because.........
I'm glad you're here with us
