A local man, a non-JW church member, committed suicide last week. My wife, as usual, prepared a covered dish and took it to their house as an expression of sympathy and to help out. She just received a thank you card from them and I thought I'd share part of it:
"...thanks also for the memorial in Jxxxxx's name. He was a great father and "Papaw" to us and will be greatly missed."
Do you think the family would be sending a similar expression if they were JW's?
Fats
A Suicide - the family's thank you note
by Fatfreek 21 Replies latest jw experiences
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Fatfreek
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morty
what a crying shame....
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Fatfreek
Let me rephrase what may have looked confusing:
"...for the memorial in Jxxxxx's name...."
At first glance some could have thought I meant Jesus or Jehovah. No, his nickname was Jerry.
Fats
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kid-A
In general, I have no idea what the WTS stance is on suicide, however I believe they think the suicidee will be eligible for resurrection.
An active MS committed suicide around here not long ago. His wife was having an affair with an Elder. They gave him a regular JW funeral, and just
referred to his death as "tragic" without using the word suicide.
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littlerockguy
I remember going to one JW funeral where a son of an elder killed himself. I dont know all the specific details on why he killed himself. It was very tragic. I went to the cong where the family went to briefly and spent quite a bit of time at their house since I ran around with his older brother at the time, but I wasnt going there the time it happened. His father had been an elder for years and he was the school overseer when I went to that cong. What was so sad is that that family lost a daughter to a tragic accident about 10 years earlier.
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Crumpet
In general, I have no idea what the WTS stance is on suicide, however I believe they think the suicidee will be eligible for resurrection.
An active MS committed suicide around here not long ago. His wife was having an affair with an Elder. They gave him a regular JW funeral, and just
referred to his death as "tragic" without using the word suicide.
Kid A - suicide is a disfellowshipping offence. It is considered murder (even if the attempt is unsuccessful) and murderers do not inherit god's kingdom. I am extremely surprised he got a JW funeral. I have been disfellowshipped for this amongst other things.
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kid-A
Crumpet:
From the sounds of this article, its not. Have they explicitely said that suicide attempts are grounds for DFing? If so, citation please.
They From the Feb 22, 2000 Awake:
Those whose loved ones commit suicide are often tormented by the question, What could I have done to prevent it? Alertness to warning signs and risk factors may avert an attempt. But if not, remember that you are not responsible for another person's self-destructive act. ( Galatians 6:5 ) This is especially important to remember in those cases where the suicidal family member deliberately seeks to inflict guilt on others. Dr. Hendin, quoted earlier, notes: "It should be kept in mind that fatal suicide attempts are often made by people who are hoping to influence or manipulate the feelings of other people even though they will not be around to witness the success or failure of their efforts."
Dr. Hendin goes on to point out: "In the case of older people who are suicidal, there are often grown children as well as siblings or marital partners whom the patient wishes to influence, control, or force to assume a more protective role. The demands of the patient are often impossible to meet, the patient is often uncompromising with regard to them, and suicide attempts that are not serious are often followed by attempts that are."
Family members in these circumstances may feel that they are truly under extreme pressure, beyond their strength. Yet, never forget that Jehovah God raises up the dead and that this might well include our loved ones who because of depression, mental illness, or despair took their own lives.—See "The Bible's Viewpoint: Suicides—A Resurrection?" in Awake! of September 8, 1990, pages 22-3.
While suicide cannot be justified, it is comforting to remember that the future prospects of our loved ones rest with a God who fully understands that weaknesses and frailties could push one to such desperate action. The Bible says of Jehovah: "As the heavens are higher than the earth, his loving-kindness is superior toward those fearing him. As far off as the sunrise is from the sunset, so far off from us he has put our transgressions. As a father shows mercy to his sons, Jehovah has shown mercy to those fearing him. For he himself well knows the formation of us, remembering that we are dust."—
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troubled mind
YES I can think a JW could send out such a thank you under such circumstances , Because I recently received one ! The person that commited suicide was no longer attending meetings , but they still gave her a witness talk by an Elder . He made it clear we can not judge suicide as unforgivable because we don't know the pain this person must have endured to take their own life . I'm so sorry Crumpet that you were treated by such unkind stupidity . The past few years there has been some better treatment for those that suffer depression and attempt suicide . That in no way justifies the idiots that should have known better in the first place to not take it upon themselves to treat mental illness with harsh judgements. I don't defend any in this religion that act as total a**es BUT there are some good people still in there trying to survive - Like the mother of the young girl I knew . She really appreciated the support and love she received from neighbors and witlesses alike.
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jgnat
Crumpet is right. She lived through the condemnation. Here's the QFR. As usual, I've highlighted the doublespeak and added my own comments in red.
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w02 6/15 pp. 30-31 Questions From Readers ***Questions
From ReadersIf
someone commits suicide, would it be advisable for a Christian minister to give the funeral talk?Each Christian minister would have to decide for himself (Yeah, right. That's why you had to write a QFR) whether he in good conscience could conduct a funeral for someone who seems to have committed suicide. When making the decision, he should consider the following questions: How does Jehovah view suicide? Was the death really a self-inflicted murder? Did a mental or emotional disorder trigger the suicide? How is suicide viewed in the locality?
As Christians, we are interested in how Jehovah views suicide. To Jehovah human life is precious and sacred (except when a life-saving blood transfusion is required, of course. Then it's disposable). (Genesis 9:5; Psalm 36:9) The intentional killing of oneself is self-murder, and it is therefore displeasing in God’s eyes. (Exodus 20:13; 1 John 3:15) Does that fact preclude the giving of a funeral talk for a suicide victim?
Consider the case of King Saul of Israel. When he realized that he would not survive his final battle against the Philistines, rather than letting his enemy treat him abusively, "Saul took the sword and fell upon it." When the Philistines found his corpse, they fastened it on the wall of the city of Beth-shan. Upon finding out what the Philistines had done, the inhabitants of Jabesh-gilead removed the corpse and burned it. Then they took his bones and buried them. They even fasted for seven days, a traditional mourning rite among the Israelites. (1 Samuel 31:4, 8-13; Genesis 50:10) When David, the anointed of Jehovah, found out what the inhabitants of Jabesh-gilead had done, he said: "Blessed may you be of Jehovah, because you exercised this loving-kindness toward your lord, toward Saul, in that you buried him. And now may Jehovah exercise toward you loving-kindness and trustworthiness." (2 Samuel 2:5, 6) The divine record does not indicate that the inhabitants of Jabesh-gilead were condemned for performing what may be considered a funeral rite for King Saul. Compare that with the case of those who were deprived of burial because of their wrongdoing. (Jeremiah 25:32, 33) A Christian minister may consider the account about Saul in deciding whether he can give a funeral talk for a suicide victim.
The minister may also want to consider the purpose of a funeral service. Unlike people who believe in the immortality of the soul, Jehovah’s Witnesses do not perform funerals with the erroneous idea of sending the deceased off to another world. Rather than to benefit the deceased, the main purpose of having a memorial service is to comfort the bereaved and to give a witness concerning the condition of the dead to those who attend. (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10; 2 Corinthians 1:3-5) Another important reason for having a funeral is to help all in attendance to reflect on the transitoriness of life. (Ecclesiastes 7:2) Will these purposes be served by performing the memorial service for the suicide victim?
Granted, some may feel that the person took his life intentionally, fully aware that he was sinning against Jehovah. But is there always a way to substantiate such a feeling? Could it have been a spur-of-the-moment act? Some who attempt suicide feel regret and do not go through with it. A person cannot after death repent for what he has done.
Another important factor is that of mental and emotional disorders that are involved in many suicides. These can really be called suicide victims. According to some statistics, 90 percent of those who commit suicide have some kind of mental, emotional, or addictive problem. Will Jehovah forgive the self-murder committed by people in such a mental state? We are not in a position to judge (again, then, why the article?) whether the deceased committed an unforgivable sin in the eyes of Jehovah. A Christian minister may take into account the circumstances and medical history of the deceased when he considers whether to perform a funeral service for the suicide victim.
There is one more aspect to consider: How do people in the community view suicide and the death of the person? This is especially of concern to the elders, who are interested in the reputation of the local congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Depending on the general attitude toward suicide in the locality, and particularly toward the case involved, the elders may prefer not to sponsor such a funeral publicly or to have it in the Kingdom Hall.
Still, if a Christian minister is asked to preside at the funeral, he may feel that on a private basis, he can do so. If he decides to do so, he should be discreet in not making any firm statements about whether a resurrection might be possible. Any future prospect for the dead is in the hands of Jehovah, and no one is in a position to say whether the deceased will be resurrected or not. The minister can concentrate on the Bible truths about death and offer comfort for the bereaved.
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Fatfreek
I've been out of the org for some 29 years and I posted this thread to see what their present stance is. While I don't have my old sources or WT cd's, I guarantee that attempts at suicide at that time were disfellowshipping offenses. It was one of the issues I strongly objected to and was told to "wait on Jehovah". Yeah, right. Blame all your administrative boo-boos on Him, why don't you?This is obviously another one of their teaching flip-flops and they have relaxed their stance in the past few years.
Crumpet, I am so sorry to hear of your case. I have someone close to me who has made such an attempt.
As I see it, then, if you now attempt suicide but are not successful, you're a candidate for DF. If you are successful, then an elder can preach the memorial service -- that is, if he deems it politically correct
Fats