Interesting thoughts on the situation.. READ

by Brutus 39 Replies latest jw friends

  • Brutus
    Brutus

    Hey everyone,

    Everybody has called for everything from full scale nuclear assault to a more measured response, against targets ranging from the entire Middle East to just the perpetrators.

    Who's right? I don't know. But I know this:

    The only democracy in the Middle East is Israel. The only country in which Arabs can vote for their leaders is Israel, where native born Arabs are given citizenship.

    Most Arab leaders treat their people like absolute shit. The Saudi royal family may be the wealthiest on earth. Yet much of their country is poverty stricken.

    Iraq? Saddam seems to live pretty well, but the country is starving. Somemay blame sanctions for the current poverty. That may be partially correct. However, recall that during the Gulf War, Iraqi soldiers were actually sent to war without boots. There were no sanctions then. This is how Arab leaders care about their people.

    Other Islamic leaders are no better. The Taliban....well, their women are not permitted to be educated past age 8. Recently the Taliban was rounding up and executing DOGS because they were delcared unholy. Sorry Fido, you're dead. Meanwhile, the people are so poor that they live in tents and herd goats through the city.

    Iran? Althought the reform movement is powerful (Khatami was elected with 77%) the hard line Guardian Council (they religious ruling authority) has rejected any attempt at reform.

    My point is, the culture is different. I am not sure it can be understood with Western eyes. They don't value human life the way we do. It is evident all over the Middle East.

    Retaliation will happen in this case. But our measued responses have not deterred anything. The terrorists who blew up Flight 103 were found and tried, as were the ones who attempted to bomb the Trade Cetner in 1993. Did it work? No. Terrorism came back stronger than ever, because teh triaal and execution of a few people does not resonate in that culture.

    Instead, we are treated to Palestinians (a misnomer) and Iraqis celebrating.

    There are always two sides to the story. Those Arabs and Muslims who support this behavior will tell you that these acts are what the US deserves for their support if Israel, or something to that effect. Yes, we are supporting the only democracy in the region. Yes, we are supporting the only Middle Eastern nation where Arab citizens get to elect their leaders. Yes, we are supporting the nation that gives Arabs more rights than any other in the region. Yes, we are probably guilty as charged in supporting Israel.

    The only way any lasting change will happen in the region is if there is aggressive retaliation against leaders and citizens who support terrorism. This is sad. But it is true. There can be no understanding of any other means. The people of the region must be made to understand that terrorism against Americans means that THEIR family is in jeopardy. They must be made to understand that when they cheer mass homicide, they will be shown the other side of it too.

    Middle eastern leaders have managed to maintain power by using Israel and the US as enemies, the glue that holds the region together. Rather than make changes, much of the youth of the Middle East is encouraged to become terrorists. (The PLO pays the surviving families of suicide bomers).

    At some point, the people have to rise up against their government. But their governments are using Israel (and by proxy) America to re-direct their anger. They need to be shown that rising up in cowardly terrorist acts will only result in tremendous retaliation. Eventually they will get the message, and rise up against their own oppressive leaders.

    Does anyone think anything else will work?

    My thoughts. Others?

  • TR
    TR

    Brutus,

    Can't argue with you on this one. There's a lot of dynamics at play here, but for the most part, I think you're right.

    TR

    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
    —Edmund Burke

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine
    Does anyone think anything else will work?

    Well sir, you didn't exactly articulate a credible plan that someone could then give a counter-argument too. The tone of your post however, seemed to lean toward killing Arabs just for being Arabs until Arabs decide they don't want to be killed anymore, in which case they will rise against their leaders? Rise from the dead, I assume?

    edited for over the top language and speculation.

  • TR
    TR

    Six,

    Please articulate what you think is wrong with Brutus' post instead of just shooting it down.

    TR

    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
    —Edmund Burke

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    Well sir, you didn't exactly articulate a credible plan that someone could then give a counter-argument too. The tone of your post however, seemed to lean toward killing Arabs just for being Arabs until Arabs decide they don't want to be killed anymore, in which case they will rise against their leaders? Rise from the dead, I assume?

    That, that is what is wrong. Plainly wrong as well TR, you should have caught it.

  • Ranchette
    Ranchette

    It does seem from their actions that they don't have a healthy respect and aren't afraid of the US. I have to ask why? Could it be from what they've seen in how we delt with countries like Iraq?
    Ranchette

  • Ustabee
    Ustabee

    My eyes are red from watching too much TV news. My heart is heavy for the loss of life. I'm mad as hell and I don't yet know at whom exactly I'm maddest. Our leaders, for being asleep at the switch, or the evil bastards who did this. Make no mistake, Americans in a large part of the world are hated. I lived in Greece in 1974 when being an American could get rocks thrown at you, or even worse, get your car burned. (They tried to burn my car, but they didn't know how to do it efficiently) My former Commanding Officer, Captain George Tsantis, was assassinated in Athens in the late 70's. His crime, being the Naval Attache at the U.S. Embassy in Athens.

    Make no mistake, an attack like the one yesterday will not make the US cave in, it will only unite a people famous for being able to react to this kind of thing.

    You can also rest assured that the US Military is planning its reponse as I write this. Any armed country or individual that supports these terrorists has put itself beyond the pale. Arabs will not be attacked because they are Arabs, but the scenes on TV last night and today of the man on the street in Palestine celebrating the most evil act in American history surely does not portray a people interested in peace. My thoughts are: If anyone carries a weapon in opposition to freedom or supports such people has painted a target on their back. No one should be surprised if rounds are fired at that target.

  • TR
    TR

    Six,

    I think your "killing Arabs just for being Arabs" statement is a bit of a stretch, and is not what Brutus said or meant, I believe.

    TR

    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
    —Edmund Burke

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine
    The people of the region must be made to understand that terrorism against Americans means that THEIR family is in jeopardy.

    They don't value human life the way we do.

    Retaliation will happen in this case. But our measued responses have not deterred anything.

    If you get in an argument with me about my reading comprehension, you will lose; it's very good. I think my comments suggest the jist of Brutus' comments.

    BTW, much of what sustained me yesterday was a desire, even a relish, to see the people responsible for this eliminated from the face of this earth (with extreme prejudice). That is not really what Brutus post is about, however. The tone of his post is most definately "a few of them for every one of us.

    God this world will be a better place when "they" and "them" are stricken from the language.

  • fodeja
    fodeja
    They don't value human life the way we do

    Which, of course, justifies their killing.

    You, excuse my language as this time I cannot seem to find better words, arrogant self-righteous bastards have such an easy time talking about the murder of humans, and YOU are disgusted at the terrorists at the same time? You talk about the lives of people you've never seen as if they are expendable, a mere blip on the screen, a figure on a sheet of paper, a price that could easily be paid for the greater good. Now what does that remind me of?

    I can't believe this. Who are the "citizens supporting terrorism"? The kids on the streets? Their mothers, passing out candy? Or just their fathers? Will there be smart bomb technology to incinerate the guilty and leave the innocent alive? So far, this hasn't worked.

    They must be made to understand that when they cheer mass homicide, they will be shown the other side of it too. ... They need to be shown that rising up in cowardly terrorist acts will only result in tremendous retaliation. Eventually they will get the message, and rise up against their own oppressive leaders.

    They will rise up against the people who kill their fathers, mothers, sons and daughters. They will call for retaliation. More bloodshed. A brilliant plan. These people will finally see what democracy can do for them!

    f., finally losing his belief in "the free world"

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