the Power of Prayer?

by darcy 40 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Narkissos

  I mostly agree darcy. No one else is hearing but yourself.

  Still when you start praying you have to forget about that and pretend -- with your best theatrical sincerity -- that you are addressing someone else -- your-Father-who-hears-in-the-Secret -- you have to construe the absent as present, otherwise you are not praying at all.

  The subjective splitting (as con-science, sun-eidesis always implies) first occurs, imo, not in identifying with the god you pray to, but by being both the actor and the audience. As you pray you hear and watch yourself praying. Just as you are both the writer and the reader of your journal.

  Identifying to the god prayed to, in my experience, occurs when praying becomes silence. Perhaps it is the ultimate act of theophagy, as Jabès put it, which mysticism involves: you have eaten your god up. But then prayer is never really talking to yourself.
• 

  darcy

  Yeah, I often find myself starting the prayer, and then going, 'wait, you already know all this stuff, what's going on and crap and how I feel; why do I gotta say it all over again when all I really want is a good night's sleep to help me get over it.
• 

  darcy

  IP: that's the best prayer ever! I swear I printing that out and sticking it to the wall.
• 

  Terry

  Identifying to the god prayed to, in my experience, occurs when praying becomes silence. Perhaps it is the ultimate act of theophagy, as Jabès put it, which mysticism involves: you have eaten your god up. But then prayer is never really talking to yourself.

  This is actually a very interesting (to me) subject.

  The mechanism of consciousness isn't fully understood, but; the effects of malfunction can be pretty clear at times!

  Talking to an invisible persona is a detachment from reality.

  Renaming this delusion: "transcendance" is like calling masturbation a love affair!

  Mystics snatch concepts away from ostensible definitions and piggy back them onto make-believe notions.

  Prayer is pretending to have a one-way conversation with a superior entity who can not only hear everything you have to say, understand it and act upon it--but, who is actually CONCERNED with the outcome.

  The hubris and self-interest of the supplicant is staggering.

  I think of the scene in Lawrence of Arabia (my favorite film) in which Lawrence is sitting at a vast table in Damascus surrounded by screaming Arab tribes waving petitions and demanding some favor be granted. There is no government, there is no electricity or water or hospital services. There is only the illusion that somebody is in charge and that favors can be granted.

  Prayer is the worst lie a human being can tell himself because it destroys not only the basis of sanity, but; the nature of cause and effect in the universe. We CAUSE our life to have a certain value by our own actions. We create our effects in the life we choose to build or destroy. The buck stops here......not out "there".
• 

  Apostate Kate

  I sure do stick out like a sore thumb here and it is obvious you all think I am a poor ignorant fool, but.. to thine own self be true...

  Not only do I believe in prayer it is the very heart of my faith. I do not pray to try to manipulate God, I pray to interact with my Maker, by talking intimatly with His Son. It is an interaction that leaves me with the deepest peace and tranquility I have ever known.

  He answers in many ways, He always does. Jesus is who I talk to. Jesus fills me with wisdom over the daily strugles of life. Jesus gives me strength to face whatever hurdles come my way.

  I get insight into everything occuring around me. He shows me His tender heart on matters. He corrects me when I am wrong as long as I am willing to listen to Him. He teaches me to see all people they way He does, through His eyes.

  Does He do this because I think I am special or deserving? No. Just because I believe and I love Him.
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  Narkissos

  Terry,

  Of course our assessments of mysticism are different, but let's leave that aside for a moment.

  To me there is no science without con-science. No subject speaking or acting without listening to or watching him/herself speaking or acting at the same time. No person knowing without knowing s/he knows. No subject without subject-splitting. No human reality without human fiction. The mirror effect, and the subsequent imaginary ability, is essential to homo sapiens sapiens. That's how we work, and to me what we call "religion" is only one expression of this essential aspect of cognition: representation, as in theatre.

  What is involved in an atheist's self-understanding is not so far from "religion" I guess. The Christian who wants to believe that there is really a God out there watching and listening, and the atheist who insists that only reality matters, both deny the play as a play but are still actors and audience.
• 

  prophecor

  Prayer, for me becomes imperative. It's not so much who you pray to, per se', but the simple fact that your thoughts and ideas are reflective of the fact that there is an ultimate prime power source out here who truly has your best interest at heart. Be it Jehovah, Be it Jesus, Buddha, Yahweh or whoever.

  There are chapters in my life which make it perfectly clear to me that I could not have survived these things on my own power, but I had what can only be described as the grace that belongs to God associated with my life. For that I will always be eternally grateful and thankful to God. We are too infantesmally small to sit back and argue with God, regardless for our station in this life. Some of us get grace, some of us don't. Some of us couldn't get rid of grace if we tried.
• 

  Elsewhere

  I say unto them: "Dancing the Hokey-Pokey is just as effective as prayer (not at all) and far more entertaining.

  OMG! What if the Hokey-Pokey really is what it's all about?!?!?
• 

  Terry

  To me there is no science without con-science. No subject speaking or acting without listening to or watching him/herself speaking or acting at the same time. No person knowing without knowing s/he knows. No subject without subject-splitting. No human reality without human fiction. The mirror effect, and the subsequent imaginary ability, is essential to homo sapiens sapiens

  Concepts begin by splitting off general attributes from a whole. I think of it as "taking a bite" out of pizza which is too big to fit in your mouth.

  But, accurate definitions of all the particulars must follow. Comparisons to real world actuality are essential.

  You invoke the subjective/objective split and imply there is a necessary fiction which must follow.

  Try thinking of it slightly differently.

  Ever play darts?

  You take your best shot at the center bull's eye. However far off your dart lies from center indicates the degree of your error. FREEZE FRAME MOMENT!

  1. You focus on the "miss" and call it fiction because the intentionality of the toss didn't match the result.

  2. I focus on the process whereby we can correct the next toss by comparison with the last.

  If humans could not make such comparisons and correct for error there could be no learning (hence no science) at all!

  It would seem to me (correct me if I mis-state) that you crave the evil to make the good shine through ala C.S. Lewis. (Not you personally, your argument).

  Un-consciousness is a desk full of scrambled papers un-processed and needing tending. It is a TO DO list.

  PRAYER is the belief somebody else throws the dart from an invisible and superior realm.

  Mankind hungers for the bullseye. It only makes it worse thinking make-believe darts from heaven will serve any purpose.
• 

  greendawn

  Biblically prayers have great value not just as psychological safety valves but through communicating with real supernatural divine powers. Obviously a person has to be of a certain moral standard for the prayers not to get blocked out.
  
  The prayers of the saints are like incense that rise up to heavens.