What are apostate lies?

by vitty 63 Replies latest jw friends

  • Warlock

    Now, how could you know what an apostate lie was, if you were not supposed to speak to them, or read their literature?


  • james_woods

    The Jews don't count as a religion?

  • under_believer

    Like when apostates state that Jehovah's Witnesses "compromised" with Hitler, tear isolated quotes out of context, and actually claim that the only religious group that stood up to Hitler actually have something to be ashamed of.

    sbf, I suggest that you read

    and educate yourself on this subject before you go around making foolish accusations. The facts speak for themselves--no need for quoting out of context. The JW's didn't "stand up to Hitler" as you put it until Hitler rejected their attempts at conciliation--and even then it wasn't a universal "standing up to" so much as a "getting hit by the freight train of." And the German Witnesses were far from united on this matter either. Compare how many went into concentration camps with how many were reporting from Germany both before and after the war.

  • Leolaia

    <------ Rears his ugly head again.

  • slimboyfat

    Excuse me, under_believer, I have read Penton's book - twice. I have also read numerous other books and articles on the subject in both English and German. I wrote a 12, 000 word dissertation on the historiography of JWs and the Third Reich and got the top mark for it.

    So please don't tell me to "educate myself" on the subject, because I think I know a little about it already.


  • Narkissos


    So how would you qualify the first official WT stance toward the Nazi regime, as shown by the above-quoted Yearbook for instance? To me it sounds like more than "compromise" or even "theocratic strategy" -- imo we have either a Nazi-friendly misrepresentation of the WT's stance, or a honest exposition of the WT stance as Nazi-friendly -- depending on what was really in Rutherford's mind, which was quite totalitarist itself I think.

    Of course this doesn't substract anything to the faith and courage of the German (and other European) JWs who suffered for following the second, uncompromising, WT stance -- while the WT American leaders were watching comfortably across the pond.

  • BizzyBee

    This is a good question. Apparently the WTS forgot to define terms, as usual, but considering that the audience they write for is not allowed to ask for clairifcation, why bother?

    Apostates are, in this order,:

    1. People
    2. In this context, people who used to be Jehovah’s Witnesses
    3. People who used to be Jehovah’s Witnesses who left the WTS because they no longer believe it is the truth
    4. People who used to be Jehovah’s Witnesses who left the WTS because they no longer believe it is the truth and who may or may not be active in speaking out against the WTS

    Given the above premises, do people lie? Absolutely. Do 2, 3, and 4 lie? Of course.

    I know of no single voice representing ex-JW apostates as a group. We do not have a GB or FDS doing our thinking for us.

    Obviously, however, the WTS knows this, but that is not what they are worried about. They are actually worried about apostates who tell the TRUTH about the WTS.

  • slimboyfat

    The first stance taken by the Watchtower was at once obsequious and duplicitous, but it was not a "compromise". They were first and foremost concerned that they could carry on their meetings and preaching activities. They were prepared to suspend these for a time, only on the basis that a very short cessation would allow them to explain their position and resume. The Witnesses had the rather naive belief that anyone, even the Nazis, if they could get them to sit down and listen, would be convinced that the Witnesses posed no threat at all, and that they actually were the ones practising true Christianity, rather than the Catholics or Lutherans who were cosying up to Hitler at the time. They even tried to appeal to the Nazis' better nature - this is not the same as compromising with the Nazis on a sustained basis and fully cognizant of their ultimate designs in the way that the mainstream Churches did.

    The Centre Party voted to give Hitler "emergency powers" for crying out loud - that is what I call compromise.

    Apostates band this word about far too lightly when it comes to Jehovah's Witnesses. Thank goodness proper historians like Richard Evans have gnored attempts by Penton and others to rewrite history.


  • Swan

    An apostate lie: "I was recruited by Papa Smurf."

    Tammy :-D

  • lonelysheep
    Even now I dont know what an apostate "lie" is. Do you know ?

    Anything any former jw says that contradicts what the WT teaches.

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