So, if someone is of the 144,000, dies, and supposedly goes to heaven, is it still possible for them to be misled, or kicked out, thus needing another replacement. If the answer is yes, I guess the 144,000 will never be completed, in fact eventually they will have 144,000 replacements, then 144,000 replacements replacing the replacements, doh !
Can someone of the 144,000 get kicked out after entering heaven ???
by The_Replacement 17 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
-
-
Mackin
*** Can someone of the 144,000 get kicked out after entering heaven ??? ***
The answer to your question is emphatically NO!
For the answer to be anything else the 144,000, heaven, God and all the other supernatural delusions would first have to exist. And since the only place God, heaven, angels, demons et al exist is in the minds of "believers", then no, you can't get kicked out of something that's non-existent.
Mackin_NZ -
Tea4Two
I heard a talk at the KH once about the "anoinited" The idea was once they reach heaven it is impossible for them to sin. So I would guess the answer is NO
-
press any key
just a minute
<<bangs head against brick wall a few times to start thinking like a jdub again>>
no, once in heaven you are sealed and god knows you'll never sin (no fun sins possible in heaven)
same with those on earth after final test, cause otherwise everyone would eventually sin and die, even in it was in trillions of years
-
blondie
I would say that it is considered "improbable" but not "impossible."
It is much the same with the WTS concept of "immortality." Some JWs think that God cannot kill persons who have been given immortality, in their definition only God, Jesus and the 144,000 are immortal. But the WTS still says that God has the ability to destroy someone who is immortal. That seems to make it possible but improbable that the 144,000 cannot sin.
*** w55 11/15 pp. 702-703 Questions From Readers ***
Can man sin after the final test at the end of the thousand-year reign, and if he did could Jehovah put him to death, since Revelation 20:14 and 21:4 (NW) say "death and Hades were hurled into the lake of fire" and "death will be no more"?—J. M., Mexico.
The death spoken of here is the death due to Adam’s sin, and then it will not have any power over mankind. Even its past effects will be nullified by the resurrection of its victims. All who are to remain permanently dead or in second death will be in that condition because of willful indifference or wickedness. So in the new world there will be no death due to Adamic sin.
But the passing of the final test at the end of the thousand years will not make men into robots. They will still be free moral agents, choosing their own course of conduct. Hence they could sin if they chose to do so. And if they did, Jehovah, with whom nothing is impossible, could put them to death, and it would be no contradiction of the above scriptures, since this death would not be Adamic death. We cannot conceive of the Creator’s being powerless to destroy a rebellious creature. He is the Almighty God. And the lake of fire, a symbol of second death, exists forever, which would suggest that any creatures becoming rebellious could be pitched into it by being destroyed.
On the other hand, we need not expect any such happenings. Jehovah made man, knows him inside out and knows how to test him to see how he will use his freedom of choice. So we may have complete confidence in the thoroughness of the test at the end of the thousand years, that it will ferret out all the unworthy ones and eliminate them, leaving only those of demonstrated reliability, in whom confidence can be placed, just as Jehovah accurately judged Job and knew he would not deflect even under extreme satanic pressure. For any to sin after passing the final test would imply that the test was faulty, that Jehovah was unable to test with sufficient searchingness. But his test will be a success and accomplish its purpose of weeding out any who would ever misuse their freedom of choice to choose sin.
Reasoning in the same way, there will be no danger of any of the heavenly class who have gained immortality later choosing to sin, and thus awkwardly having in the universe immortal rebels. But here again, even if such a thing did happen, we need not think that Jehovah would be powerless. Jehovah could destroy even an immortal creature. Immortality means to have the power of life within oneself. In other words, such a creature is not dependent on any outside source or environment to replenish energy or for the continuance of the life processes. Human creatures must eat, and spirit creatures apparently draw upon an outside source for continued existence, but immortal ones would not have to do this. They cannot die from a lack in their environment, but have life complete in themselves. Nevertheless, the all-powerful Jehovah could terminate their existence if he decided to do so.
-
Narkissos
Watchtower 11/15 1955, QFR:
•
Can man sin after the final test at the end of the thousand-year reign, and if he did could Jehovah put him to death, since Revelation 20:14 and 21:4 (NW) say "death and Hades were hurled into the lake of fire" and "death will be no more"?—J. M., Mexico.The death spoken of here is the death due to Adam’s sin, and then it will not have any power over mankind. Even its past effects will be nullified by the resurrection of its victims. All who are to remain permanently dead or in second death will be in that condition because of willful indifference or wickedness. So in the new world there will be no death due to Adamic sin.
But the passing of the final test at the end of the thousand years will not make men into robots. They will still be free moral agents, choosing their own course of conduct. Hence they could sin if they chose to do so. And if they did, Jehovah, with whom nothing is impossible, could put them to death, and it would be no contradiction of the above scriptures, since this death would not be Adamic death. We cannot conceive of the Creator’s being powerless to destroy a rebellious creature. He is the Almighty God. And the lake of fire, a symbol of second death, exists forever, which would suggest that any creatures becoming rebellious could be pitched into it by being destroyed.
On the other hand, we need not expect any such happenings. Jehovah made man, knows him inside out and knows how to test him to see how he will use his freedom of choice. So we may have complete confidence in the thoroughness of the test at the end of the thousand years, that it will ferret out all the unworthy ones and eliminate them, leaving only those of demonstrated reliability, in whom confidence can be placed, just as Jehovah accurately judged Job and knew he would not deflect even under extreme satanic pressure. For any to sin after passing the final test would imply that the test was faulty, that Jehovah was unable to test with sufficient searchingness. But his test will be a success and accomplish its purpose of weeding out any who would ever misuse their freedom of choice to choose sin.
Reasoning in the same way, there will be no danger of any of the heavenly class who have gained immortality later choosing to sin, and thus awkwardly having in the universe immortal rebels. But here again, even if such a thing did happen, we need not think that Jehovah would be powerless. Jehovah could destroy even an immortal creature. Immortality means to have the power of life within oneself. In other words, such a creature is not dependent on any outside source or environment to replenish energy or for the continuance of the life processes. Human creatures must eat, and spirit creatures apparently draw upon an outside source for continued existence, but immortal ones would not have to do this. They cannot die from a lack in their environment, but have life complete in themselves. Nevertheless, the all-powerful Jehovah could terminate their existence if he decided to do so.
Shortly put, it won't happen but it might... introducing the interesting concepts of potentially non-eternal eternity and mortal immortality.
There is no "solution" to the so-called "problem of free will" except getting rid of "free will" itself. This shows what any explanation why God permitted evil yet won't permit it forever is really worth: peanuts.
-
Narkissos
Oops. Sorry Blondie.
-
trevor
People don't get 'kicked out' of heaven. It is a lot more sophisticated than that.
They are 'beamed' to a remote corner of the galaxy, where the weeping and gnashing of their teeth can take place in privacy - forever. Perhaps eternal life is not such a great idea!
-
TheOldHippie
Satan was kicked out, and a third of the angels with him, so why could not a male Anglo-Saxon suffer the same?
-
heathen
I don't think so because it says in Revelation that the second death has no authority over the 144k that are involved in the first resurrection . I think they all die as martyrs anyway and couldn't see how they could do that and then rebell in heaven . Wouldn't make much sense .