I've seen heartless bitches before GF, but I don't believe in any kind of game playing in relationships. I believe in being yourself, and if someone doesn't like it, they can go find someone else.
Please explain: Guilt for not having a submissive wife
by serendipity 40 Replies latest social relationships
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GentlyFeral
serendipity,
I shake my head at some things I hear women say. They want a man who plans a date, then complain when things don't turn out so great.
Yeah, this is pretty dicey when a couple is first getting to know each other and haven't learned each other's tastes yet. Frankly, I don't want a new lover planning everything without any input from me.
They don't want a man ordering them around, then they call him to ask permission for something trivial.
Well, sometimes it's the apparent trivialities that really get under your skin. Everyone who loves you will respect that.
OK, now I'm hijacking. I'll stop.
gently feral
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KW13
how would i wake my mother up to this?
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looking_glass
It is difficult all around. I don't think that a relationship leads and follows needs to be determined based on black and white thinking. My theory is that if I am good at something, then I should do it, if I suck at it and the guy is good at it, let him do it. Example, I am the worst with math. When it comes to numbers and figuring things out, I always ask for help. As for writing a nasty gram or speaking to a customer service rep over issues that need to be addressed, I am golden there. So it is not one or the other.
I can tell you as a chick, it is hard to figure out a happy balance also. I also need someone who knows when to be aggressive and when to sit back. But until you are in a relationship for a period of time, there is no way of knowing when that is or how to work it out. It is all trial and errors.
To me, my perfect relationship was my first. The guy let me do whatever I want. However, there were a few times he would put his foot down. I knew that when he was solid about his opinion or view, that I would not change it and I should let it go. Which I did. He was very easy going and did whatever I wanted for the most part, but there were times when he would put his foot down. He was neither a door mat nor a ruler with a club.
The problem though with the JW thinking when it comes to chicks is that they are not allowed to have a brain and use it. Nor are they allowed to question anything. If you are not married and you do not have a father that is a JW, then the body of elders are considered your head If you do have a husband then the elders go to your husband and he is suppose to take the lead. It is a religion where the women are second class citizens and they have no voice. I have a GF who is still a JW and she said that in order to avoid every looking like she is challenging the brothers or her husband, she poses everything as a question (the role of "I am just a dumb woman can you help me please") that way she can get her point across but never seem to be challenging their authority. [Insert the voice of Carman from South Park "RESPECT MY AUTHORATAAAAA]
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Scully
how would i wake my mother up to this?
Not knowing your mom, it's hard to say what would work and what wouldn't. However, appealing to her intelligence is always a good start. You would have to go about it with a very subtle approach, that might take some time to develop. Ask for her opinion on stuff that is not JW related. If you think she's got good ideas, say so. If she has a particular talent, show an interest... let her shine.... help her feel good about her intellect and decision making ability.
Eventually, if she doesn't feel like she's being stifled by the Org, you can make comments like "I just don't know how an intelligent woman like you puts up with the way the Society views and treats women." or "It just isn't fair that a woman with good ideas can't be used in the Organization the way Brothers can be. How do women deal with that?" That's when the resentment toward the Organization can be fostered.
Just remember to take it slow, and be very patient.
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KW13
thanks scully!
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looking_glass
But don't you think that some people (in particular women) don't want to be responsible for making decisions. That is how I think my mom currently lives her life. She use to be a decisive person. Now she goes to her elders about everything. Or alternatively she prays to Jah and asks him and waits for signs. I finally asked her one day what the deal was and she said "what if I make the wrong decision". I think it is a fear that they are living with. If they allow others to make decisions for them, they are not responsible for the outcome. There is an underlying fear there. If a person can figure out what the fear is and work on conquering that person's fear, then I think you can get some results, otherwise they will continue to act like the weaker vessel and allow others to live their lives for them.
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ballistic
Yes looking_glass. I think what you are talking about there is off-shouldering of responsibility. In the case of decisions made with regard to the truth, I think people can off-shoulder responsibilty before God, so if an elder said they're allowed to make Christmas dinner for their unbelieving mate, they need to no longer worry about whether it's right or wrong in principle. In their sub-concious mind - the elder who they asked permission from bears full responsibility. -
seawolf
Makes me wonder what kind of a witness it gives when the child wets his pants on someone's doorstep because kingdom interests come first
I actually did this when I was younger. I had to go *****REALLY***** bad. Well, at one of the doors I just couldn't hold it any longer and I pissed all over the porch. They kept telling me to hold it but unless I have a Guiness Book of World Records bladder that endless holding would come to an end in one of the most satisfying pisses I've ever taken.
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Forscher
Theres another aspect to this thing.
If a man doesn't have a "properly submissive" wife, then thumbscrews often come out. He'll find himself ridiculed by the other men. It starts going around the congregation that he is "pussywhipped" etc.. I hope you get the picture.
There were those who felt I didn't have a "properly submissive" wife. That one was actually started by the PO of the congregation she came from. She'd made the mistake of crossing him by telling her first husband that there were limitations to an overseer's power. Since the man believed in regulating ever aspect of his congregant's lives he couldn't abide that sort of attitude in his congregation.
The few times anybody ever brought it up to me I told them that I expected a wife like Sarah, and I could cite the Watchtower article which encouraged wives to be like that. That usually shut them up! Personally, I didn't want a wall-flower for a wife.
Forscher