607, 70 years, 1914

by crazies 129 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  TheListener

  yeah, what's wrong with you - are you crazy or something?

  Seriously, great post, and nice summation of a thorny topic.
• 

  AuldSoul

  Some of the formatting is a little different, but I think all the missing content is back in.

  • When does the 70 years Described at Jeremiah 25:12 end?

  What the Watchtower Society Says:

  ***

  w68 8/15 p. 494 par. 24 The Book of Truthful Historical Dates ***

  24

  Here, then, very definitely established, is another milestone—the time when the seventy years of desolation of the land of Judah came to an end—about October 1, 537. (Jer. 25:11, 12; 29:10) It is now a simple formula to determine when the seventy years began. One has only to add 70 to 537 to get 607. So about October 1, 607 B.C.E., the desolating of the land of Judah and the complete emptying out of its inhabitants was fully accomplished.
• When does the Bible say the end of the 70 years is?
• Was the prophecy at Jeremiah 25:12 a prophecy of desolation for Jerusalem?
• Who was the prophecy of the 70 years against?

(Jeremiah 1:4-5 RBi8) 4 And the word of Jehovah began to occur to me, saying: 5 "Before I was forming you in the belly I knew you, and before you proceeded to come forth from the womb I sanctified you. Prophet

to the nations I made you."
(Jeremiah 1:9-10 RBi8) 9 At that Jehovah thrust his hand out and caused it to touch my mouth. Then Jehovah said to me: "Here I have put my words in your mouth. 10 See, I have commissioned you this day to be over the nations and over the kingdoms, in order to uproot and to pull down and to destroy and to tear down, to build and to plant."
(Jeremiah 25:8-13 RBi8) 8 "Therefore this is what Jehovah of armies has said, ‘"For the reason that YOU did not obey my words, 9 here I am sending and I will take all the families of the north," is the utterance of Jehovah, "even [sending] to Neb·u·chad·rez´zar the king of Babylon, my servant, and I will bring them against this land and against its inhabitants and against all these nations round about; and I will devote them to destruction and make them an object of astonishment and something to whistle at and places devastated to time indefinite. 10 And I will destroy out of them the sound of exultation and the sound of rejoicing, the voice of the bridegroom and the voice of the bride, the sound of the hand mill and the light of the lamp. 11 And all this land must become a devastated place, an object of astonishment, and these nations will have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years."’

*** ip-1 chap. 19 p. 253 par. 21 Jehovah Profanes the Pride of Tyre ***

21

Isaiah goes on to prophesy: "It must occur in that day that Tyre must be forgotten seventy years, the same as the days of one king." (Isaiah 23:15a) Following the destruction of the mainland city by the Babylonians, the island-city of Tyre will "be forgotten." True to the prophecy, for the duration of "one king"—the Babylonian Empire—the island-city of Tyre will not be an important financial power. Jehovah, through Jeremiah, includes Tyre among the nations that will be singled out to drink the wine of His rage. He says: "These nations will have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years." (Jeremiah 25:8-17, 22, 27) True, the island-city of Tyre is not subject to Babylon for a full 70 years, since the Babylonian Empire falls in 539 B.C.E. Evidently, the 70 years represents the period of Babylonia’s greatest domination—when the Babylonian royal dynasty boasts of having lifted its throne even above "the stars of God." (Isaiah 14:13) Different nations come under that domination at different times. But at the end of 70 years, that domination will crumble.

If this is how the 70 years are applied to Tyre, and that ended in 539 BCE, how does it not apply the same way, since it is the same prophecy to Judah?

• What would happen when the 70 years had ended?

12

"‘And it must occur that when seventy years have been fulfilled I shall call to account against the king of Babylon and against that nation,’ is the utterance of Jehovah, ‘their error, even against the land of the Chal·de´ans, and I will make it desolate wastes to time indefinite.

13

And I will bring in upon that land all my words that I have spoken against it, even all that is written in this book that Jeremiah has prophesied against all the nations.’"

Jeremiah 25:12 give two things that will happened "when seventy years have been

fulfilled" –denotes after 70 year are done, completed, over, ended.
1. "call to account
against the king of Babylon… is the utterance of Jehovah"
• "call to account
against…… that nation,’ (Babylon) is the utterance of Jehovah"
• When did these two accountings happen according to the Bible?

(Daniel 5:24-30 NWT)

24

Consequently from before him there was being sent the back of a hand, and this very writing was inscribed. 25 And this is the writing that was inscribed: ME´NE, ME´NE, TE´KEL and PAR´SIN.

26

"This is the interpretation of the word: ME´NE, God has numbered [the days of] your kingdom and has finished it. (see Marginals) (r in NWT)

(According to the marginal reference for this in the NWT, God number his days seventy years and he finished it that night) Why else would this be linked together?

27

"TE´KEL, you have been weighed in the balances and have been found deficient.

28

"PE´RES, your kingdom has been divided and given to the Medes and the Persians."

29

At that time Bel·shaz´zar commanded, and they clothed Daniel with purple, with a necklace of gold about his neck; and they heralded concerning him that he was to become the third ruler in the kingdom.

30

In that very night Bel·shaz´zar the Chal·de´an king was killed

(Marginals NWT Daniel 5:26)

(Jeremiah 25:12)

"‘And it must occur that when seventy years have been fulfilled I shall call to account against the king of Babylon and against that nation,’ is the utterance of Jehovah, ‘their error, even against the land of the Chal·de´ans, and I will make it desolate wastes to time indefinite.

(Jeremiah 27:7) And all the nations must serve even him and his son and his grandson until the time even of his own land comes, and many nations and great kings must exploit him as a servant.’

(Jeremiah 50:1) The word that Jehovah spoke concerning Babylon, concerning the land of the Chal·de´ans, by means of Jeremiah the prophet:

(Jeremiah 51:11) "Polish the arrows. Fill the circular shields, O men. Jehovah has aroused the spirit of the kings of the Medes, because it is against Babylon that his idea is, in order to bring her to ruin. For it is the vengeance of Jehovah, the vengeance for his temple.

Two actions would be taken once the seventy years were fulfilled.

Daniel 5:24-30 Describes those two actions and even links (Daniel 5:26) them to the prophecy of the 70 years in Jeremiah 25:12

That night according to those verses two things happened:

1) Belshazzar was killed that night—No more king of Babylon (Daniel 5:26,30)

2) Babylon was divided and taken over by the Medes and the Persians—no more Babylon (Daniel 5:28)

When did this happen in history?

***

it-1 pp. 236-237 Babylon ***

That fateful night in the city of Babylon, Belshazzar held a banquet with a thousand of his grandees. Nabonidus was not there to see the ominous writing on the plaster wall: "MENE, MENE, TEKEL and PARSIN." (Da 5:5-28) After suffering defeat at the hands of the Persians, Nabonidus had taken refuge in the city of Borsippa to the SW. But Jehovah’s prophet Daniel was on hand in Babylon on that night of October 5, 539 B.C.E., and he made known the significance of what was written on the wall. The men of Cyrus’ army were not sleeping in their encampment around Babylon’s seemingly impregnable walls. For them it was a night of great activity. In brilliant strategy Cyrus’ army engineers diverted the mighty Euphrates River from its course through the city of Babylon. Then down the riverbed the Persians moved, up over the riverbanks, to take the city by surprise through the gates along the quay. Quickly passing through the streets, killing all who resisted, they captured the palace and put Belshazzar to death

. It was all over. In one night Babylon had fallen, ending centuries of Semitic supremacy; control of Babylon became Aryan, and Jehovah’s word of prophecy was fulfilled

In 537 BCE there was no king of Babylon, and there was no nation of Bablyon. Plus what could be more powerful than God himself putting handwriting on the wall proclaiming he was fulfilling one of his prophecys?

• Were the 70 years already started when Jerusalem was destroyed?

According to the NWT Bible:

(Jeremiah 27:1-8) 27 In the beginning of the kingdom of Je·hoi´a·kim the son of Jo·si´ah, the king of Judah, this word occurred to Jeremiah from Jehovah, saying: 2 "This is what Jehovah has said to me, ‘Make for yourself bands and yoke bars, and you must put them upon your neck. 3 And you must send them to the king of E´dom and to the king of Mo´ab and to the king of the sons of Am´mon and to the king of Tyre and to the king of Si´don by the hand of the messengers who are coming to Jerusalem to Zed·e·ki´ah the king of Judah. 4 And you must give them a command for their masters, saying:

"‘"This is what Jehovah of armies, the God of Israel, has said; this is what YOU should say to YOUR masters, 5 ‘I myself have made the earth, mankind and the beasts that are upon the surface of the earth by my great power and by my stretched-out arm; and I have given it to whom it has proved right in my eyes. 6 And now I myself have given all these lands into the hand of Neb·u·chad·nez´zar the king of Babylon, my servant; (Marginal Reference)

MarginalsRbi8 Jeremiah 27:6
(Jeremiah 25:9) here I am sending and I will take all the families of the north," is the utterance of Jehovah, "even [sending] to Neb·u·chad·rez´zar the king of Babylon, my servant, and I will bring them against this land and against its inhabitants and against all these nations round about; and I will devote them to destruction and make them an object of astonishment and something to whistle at and places devastated to time indefinite; and even the wild beasts of the field I have given him to serve him. 7 And all the nations must serve even him (Marginal Reference)
MarginalsRbi8 Jeremiah 27:7
(Jeremiah 25:11) And all this land must become a devastated place, an object of astonishment, and these nations will have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years."’ and his son and his grandson until the time even of his own land comes, and many nations and great kings must exploit him as a servant.’
• When was Jehoiakim king? Was he king during the destruction of Jerusalem?

*** it-2 pp. 480-481 Nebuchadnezzar ***

Conquest of Jerusalem. Later, the rebellion of Judean King Jehoiakim against Nebuchadnezzar evidently resulted in a siege being laid against Jerusalem by the Babylonians. It appears that during this siege Jehoiakim died and his son Jehoiachin ascended the throne of Judah. But a mere three months and ten days thereafter the reign of the new king ended when Jehoiachin surrendered to Nebuchadnezzar (in the month of Adar [February-March] during Nebuchadnezzar’s seventh regnal year [ending in Nisan 617 B.C.E.], according to the Babylonian Chronicles). A cuneiform inscription (British Museum 21946) states: "The seventh year: In the month Kislev the king of Akkad mustered his army and marched to Hattu. He encamped against the city of Judah and on the second day of the month Adar he captured the city (and) seized (its) king [Jehoiachin]. A king of his own choice [Zedekiah] he appointed in the city (and) taking the vast tribute he brought it into Babylon."

The NWT links to that Judah (Jerusalem) was already under the prophecy of servitude to Babylon for 70 years (Jeremiah 25:9-12) when Jehoiakim was king?

• Gentile Times (Appointed Times of the Nations) Prophecy. Is it accurate?

*** dp chap. 6 pp. 95-96 pars. 26-28 Unraveling the Mystery of the Great Tree ***

26 Evidently, Nebuchadnezzar’s "seven times" involved seven years. In prophecy, a year averages 360 days, or 12 months of 30 days each. (Compare Revelation 12:6, 14.) So the king’s "seven times," or seven years, were 360 days multiplied by 7, or 2,520 days. …

28 Since the "seven times" are prophetic, we must apply to the 2,520 days the Scriptural rule: "A day for a year." This rule is set out in a prophecy regarding the Babylonian siege of Jerusalem. (Ezekiel 4:6, 7; compare Numbers 14:34.) The "seven times" of earth’s domination by Gentile powers without interference by God’s Kingdom therefore spanned 2,520 years.

This is saying the that the "seven time" is 2,520 years in prophecy. How long are years in prophecy though? The Daniel Book, page 95 paragraph 26 tells us "In prophecy, a year averages 360 days, or 12 months of 30 days each.

So each of the 2,520 years should actually be only 360 days long, you must calculate that out to get how many years that would really be according to our current calendar year.

You would take 2,520 years and multiply that by 360 days.

2520 x 360 = 907,200 days total.

Now to get how years that would be on our calendars you would divide the total days (907,200) by the amount of days in our calendar year (365.242199)

907,200 / 365.242199 = 2,483.83 years according to our calendars.

So, if this is truly a prophecy and you followed the guidelines set out in the Daniel Book, you would get that the prophecy should instead be 2,483.83 years according to our calendar years.

• How does this fit in with what Jesus said about knowing when his presence would be? Should we know according to the Bible?

*** Live Forever chap. 16 p. 137 par. 12 God’s Government Begins Its Rule ***

12 But when is Satan thrown out of heaven, thus causing trouble on earth for "a short period of time"? When does God’s government begin its rule? Does the Bible give an answer? We should expect that it would. Why? Well, because long in advance the Bible foretold when God’s Son would appear first as a human on earth to become the Messiah. In fact, it pointed to the very year that he became the Messiah. What, then, about the even more important coming of the Messiah, or Christ, to begin his Kingdom rule? Surely we would expect that the Bible would also tell us when this would happen!

What does the Bible say?

(Matthew 24:36-42) 36 "Concerning that day and hour (see marginals) nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. 38 For as they were in those days before the flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark; 39 and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be. 40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken along and the other be abandoned; 41 two women will be grinding at the hand mill: one will be taken along and the other be abandoned. 42 Keep on the watch, therefore, because YOU do not know on what day YOUR Lord is coming.

Marginals

Rbi8 Matthew 24:36—Acts 1:7;1 Thessalonians 5:1

(Acts 1:6-7) 6 When, now, they had assembled, they went asking him: "Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?" 7 He said to them: "It does not belong to YOU to get knowledge of the times or seasons which the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction

(1 Thessalonians 5:1-2) 5 Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, YOU need nothing to be written to YOU. 2 For YOU yourselves know quite well that Jehovah’s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night.

(Matthew 24:44) 44 On this account YOU too prove yourselves ready, because at an hour that YOU do not think to

be it, the Son of man is coming.

(Matthew 24:50) 50 the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect and in an hour that he does not know,

(Matthew 25:13) 13 "Keep on the watch, therefore, because YOU know neither the day nor the hour.

(Luke 21:24) 24 and they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations, until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled.

(Mark 13:32-33) 32 "Concerning that day or the hour nobody knows, neither the angels in heaven nor the Son, but the Father. 33 Keep looking, keep awake, for YOU do not know when the appointed time is.

(Mark 13:35-37) 35 Therefore keep on the watch, for YOU do not know when the master of the house is coming, whether late in the day or at midnight or at cockcrowing or early in the morning; 36 in order that when he arrives suddenly, he does not find YOU sleeping. 37 But what I say to YOU I say to all, Keep on the watch."