by TR 43 Replies latest jw friends
Waiting,
A woman! Oh, come, now. What with no more bras, 'cause they were burned in the sixties, affirmative action laws, more and more men getting canned 'cause of sexual harrasment. How can a woman complain!? The modern woman has a career AND a family. She can handle more than a man can handle. A woman is worth far more than a man.
Your paychecks are still smaller though. All in all, women have it pretty damn good.
Tom
Oh my God...run TR...RUN....SAVE YOURSELF !!!
Angharad said she agrees with you waiting...I'm not sure what she meant by that
Well, well, well,
Ang & I might just disagree with you TR. Btw, how old might you be? How many women have you been intimate with (for more than one night/one week)? How many marriages? How many divorces? How many daughters have you raised? How many sons? Did you raise your daughters with the exact monetary/professional outlook of your sons? Have you ensured with your money that each child will have the education necessary to succeed in a "man's world?"
Ahhhhhhh, thought so. A rookie.
You are correct in your statements that women have come long strides in the past century. Why, look in the Bible OT - we could be thrown from our homes for any reason a man wanted. We could be prostitutes - and we could be cut to pieces if a man wanted. How far we've come into the NT - we couldn't be cut to pieces anymore - as long as we were silent.
Of course, it got much better in the "civilized" countries since the turn of the century. We even got to vote - just like you white men. We even got enough publicity through dying that the government stopped trying experimental drugs on us, well, white women anyway. Women "of color" still have to fight to not be experiemented on.
We have the right to keep - and physically, mentally, emotionally, and monetarily sustain our children if we, or our spouses, choose to separate from us (in the vast majority of cases). And, you lucky dogs, you don't even pay child support 75% of the time after 5 years - unless we have the government (who pays for our welfare a good amount of time) track you down for the dog that you are.
Be brave enough to ask almost any working divorced woman with children how the old college education fund is going for all her children. Ask how much their husbands are kicking in. Now, some ex's do a fine job of this - almost 25% pay till the child is 18. The percentage falls dramatically after that for support, particularily for education.
Be brave enough to ask almost any working woman if she's working as a waitress for the glory of it. True, if her parents, or she, were insightfull enough (vast majority of insight does not go to jw parents) to buy her a college education - and she (percentage wise) was smart enough to actually benefit from it as much as her male counterpart (minus drugs, parties, etc.)
Women are in a better position than ever before - but they are not equal to men - especially white males. And men did not give them this "almost equality" freely.
Any person who is not a white male must fight white males to attain the opportunities that white males, by birth, have at their disposal.
Not saying that all white males take advantage of these opportunities - but they can if they want. Others fight for these same opportunities.
Surely, you've heard of the term WASP Male?
waiting
Hi, Waiting.
I knew I was going to get more than the black eye I gave myself on that post.
Of course you are right. I was being a tad fececious. I'm really not THAT ignorant. I'm fully aware of the plight of women, and aware of the prevelance of "dead-beat dads" that don't give a rip about their kids, let alone paying child support. My wife works part-time at the local Head Start program where she sees first hand the situations of many kids that have very poor excuses for parents, or no parents. We are at this time pondering the possibility of taking in a 15 year old girl that both parents have neither the will or the patience to raise.
To set the record straight, I am married and have been to the same wonderful, beautiful woman for 17 years. I have never cheated on her. I have three kids. Girl 16, boy 14, girl 12. Each kid has a college savings account. Angela, my oldest is a junior in high school, and a member of the Honor Society. She's an excellent student and is presently going to college to earn a degree by the time she graduates from high school. I just bought her a car, and she's working to pay me back.
My boy Matt, is a freshman in high school. He's an above average student. He's also a member of the marching band, which just took first place in a competition yesterday. He's also in the Jazz band. He plays trumpet. We go out on weekends to play paintball.
My Youngest, Richelle, is in 7th grade and is an honor student. She's on the drill team, and plays violin in the school orchestra. She goes to work with me sometimes, and is very ambitious.
I hate to brag, but I have one helluva great family. My wife stood by me for ten years when I was a JW, when she could have left. Sometimes I wonder why she didn't.
Tom
Hey Tom,
Obviously your wife didn't leave you because she feels she has a good husband, good kids, and, perhaps, a good life.
The "obvious" is my opinion, but obviously she stayed with you - so I must not be far off.
Congratulations on a fine family - and seeing to your kids.
Sounds like you survived your stint in the organ. with flying colors. Another congratulations.
waiting
Interesting comments but I do disagree with the following:
Any person who is not a white male must fight white males to attain the opportunities that white males, by birth, have at their disposal.
-Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-
Speaking of white males, what is the most made fun of, most charicatured, most lampooned group of people ever to live? Of course the white male. There's the Archie Bunkers, the Elmer Fudds, the Homer Simpsons, the GB of JW's(couldn't resist), Every dumb baffoon in our culture is a white male.
Probably not without good reason. BUT! You don't very often hear us bitchin' and moanin' about it!
Tom
Hey Tom,
Take a look at our politians, etc. Everyone of them is made fun of - maybe for good reason. But they are the ones in power. People tend to mock anyone in power.
How many charictatures were popular about Nowlan Powell? Well, how many black men are in power? How many Hispanics? How many jokes - in the open forum - tv, radio, & newspapers, have you seen about them - other than being men.
I guess my point is that when one is somewhat secure in their perceived power - then it's ok to make jokes about them. Those in power can be gracious to those poking fun at them - because they are in power.
I, in no way, am saying that all white men have unlimited power, even power. I am saying that in what is perceived as God's word, the Bible, in the world of almost all nations, in the world of physical power, in the world of business, and in the world of almost everywhere - white men have always had more power than any other group of persons, - others had to fight for equality. Btw, if there has always been equality among race, creed, and sexes, who has been fighting for equality - for what groups of people? And what group were they fighting to be equal with? Not women of any color.
Some have achieved equality with white men. I'm sure that there are many black, hispanic, jewish, etc., males who might argue that there is still a way off from equality.
I'm sure that there are even more women from these backgrounds, along with white women, who would argue that there is a ways to go yet also.
There is a reason that the law for Affirmative Action was enacted. There was inequality - with whom? White males.
For Pete's sake, what about the American Indian?
I don't feel we did wrong in taking this great country away from them. There were great numbers of people who needed new land and the Indians were selfishly trying to keep it for themselves.John Wayne
waiting
ps, This in no way impunes your fine fatherhood, manhood, family, etc., Tom. You just happen to be a person with a penis - and that gave you the vote, say, 100 years before women. And you happen to be white - and under the law, you were always considered 100% human, unlike blacks.
People in a perceived superior position in life never understand what those who are in a perceived inferior position are slightly angry about (sometimes). Just the way it was, is, and forever will be.
Waiting,
I realize that white males have been in a position of having more power, historically. However, these days there are many people of color and women who are mayors, governors, generals,(including Colin Powell, Madeline Albright, Janet Reno) political leaders, etc. Marion Berry was the mayor of Wa. D.C., even though he was a crackhead. In the city where I live, there have been 3 woman mayors and 1 black mayor in the last twenty years. In the state where I live, we presently have a Chinese governor, and we've had 1 woman governor, and our attorney general is a woman.
In the U.S., I would expect there to be more white males in power just because of their numbers. I'm not sure if there is a corresponding per capita of people of color who are in power. But it's got to be getting better. Companys open themselves up for major lawsuits for discrimination. Recently, there have been major damages awarded to victims of discrimination. I agree with those decisions.
It seems to me that the nations of predominantly white people got the jump on other nations as far as technology and the industrial revolution. I don't think it makes them superior as humans, but technology meant power. And they used it and continue to use it. Are the white males in power obligated to distribute their power to others based solely on their color? Or should all people progress according to their merits. That's why I disagree with affirmative action. If somebody discriminates based on color or sex, there are laws against such. At least where I live there is.
Tom
Hey Tom,
Are the white males in power obligated to distribute their power to others based solely on their color?
No, I agree with you. People should be promoted, elected, etc., due to their merits. And, in order to have those merits, people should all be given the same opportunities in employment and education, don't you agree? And, as you've said, things are getting better. Why do you suppose that is?
If things are getting better - what were the state of things before they got better? And how much better is "better?"
I wasn't aware that the ratio of men to women, white males to the rest of all population in the USA, was so much higher than all other persons......your statistics?
I agree that Discrimination Lawsuits are a major detriment to keep people in line. Women are safer on the job now - and can even work at jobs which were tradionally male (white or otherwise), because of these laws and their enforcement. Who and what did women have to be protected from discrimination against? Other women?
People of any ethnic background which are not in power are discriminated against - and not necessarily from white males. In fact, the Irish immigrants (my mother's family) were terribly treated in NY from the turn of the century for decades. They were "the new kid on the block" till the next minority of immigrants arrived.
I live in the South, discrimination is much less, better, now. But it's still there for anyone who wants to look. I've worked at a male job, the only female amongst many males, for 30 years. I've had to be a bitch sometimes to keep my standing - where men just are men to do the same.
Things are better now for a lot of people. I don't think it's legal anymore for Chinese people to leave their female infant daughters to die in the woods after birth, which is unheard of for a male infant. Laws now prohibit this killing. Of course, rumor has it that it's still done - but at least it's not legal anymore.
You've made some good points, Tom. Thank you.
Btw, Archie Bunker was a pighead. But in his family, Edith still had no equality. Archie was the man.
waiting
