Thank You Ray Franz. (page 5)

thewiz

zev -you got me, I don't have an image of myself online so I used Kelsey's. I figured it's close enough. But I guess I should take it off. Their server must take a hit everytime the image is downloaded, and can be traced here. I don't want anyone violating a copyright infringement. I'm afraid I don't remember you. If that is you in the image, it's either too small for me to recognize or I've completely forgotten who you are. send me a private email if you wish.

Thanks for you candor. I was simply making the post to generate thinking. His books certainly were/are an eye opener. I appreciate what he has to say. Deacon, thank you for that. Everyone has an opinion, I just didn't know it had to agree with every body else's. I thought that is the kind of thinking these forums were attempting to shatter; you know to buck the system, to challenge it, to foster open ideas; that everyone has their own voice. And not be a parrot for others.

I guess people rate here too, because, "I'm a friend of Mr. Ray Franz, and you aren't". I didn't know it was used as a status symbol. Who is this guy, Randy Waters? The leader of the new church?

Everyone, thanks for your opinions.

zev

:zev -you got me,

that was the idea. i do know you. and i have to remain incogneto for the moment, but we do go back a hell of a long time.

:I don't have an image of myself online so I used Kelsey's. I figured it's close enough.

i'll say

:I'm afraid I don't remember you. If that is you in the image, it's either too small for me to recognize or I've completely forgotten who you are.

that picture is richard dean anderson, i'm better looking, and much more personable. and of course i cant show my face...

yet!

:send me a private email if you wish.

when i'm ready.

welcome to the board my friend. i look foward to your thoughts and views....

warmest greetings from an old friend....

zev

-Zev
-August 8th, 2001 - The day the lambs ROARED

teejay

Hello, thewiz (cool name, btw),

I guess people rate here too, because, "I'm a friend of Mr. Ray Franz, and you aren't". I didn't know it was used as a status symbol.

You noticed that already, huh. It takes some getting used to -- at least it did for me. I (mistakenly) thought that after kneeling before one set of men, people would have learned something. There's evidence here that I was wrong.

Earlier in this thread I said that to find fault with the Pope is to make oneself one billion instant enemies and, in the exact same way, if you hope to critique Ray (my personal hero, btw) among ex-JWs, you could've picked a more friendly environ than JW.com, because they'll have none of that 'round here. Every group everywhere has its personal icon (deity?). My time here has been educational in several ways, not the least of which is that I have learned that some human beings are prone to fight personal growth with every fiber of their being, clinging with a death-grip to old ways and patterns of thought.

Everyone has an opinion, I just didn't know it had to agree with every body else's. I thought that is the kind of thinking these forums were attempting to shatter; you know to buck the system, to challenge it, to foster open ideas; that everyone has their own voice. And not be a parrot for others.

I was thinking along the same lines when I came here. We, you and I, were thinking wrong for the most part (there ARE exceptions). Most of the posts here reflect a unity (conformity?) not unlike what you'd find in an average kingdom hall. Someone posted not long ago the different sets of people who comprise this forum's eldership, ministerialship, pioneership, governing bodyship, etc. It was funny, but all too true.

Hope you stay, thewiz. Personally, I wouldn't mind a fresh idea every once in a while. I don't think it'd kill me.

peace,
tj

larc

Mr Wiz,

Randy Watters has a site, FreeMinds, which can be found at the bottom of this page. Neither he or Ray Franz made any attempt to start a church. I could tell you about Randy, but you can read it all on his site.

Yes, you can express your opinion and that's fine. I don't think people beat you up over that. Seems to me, they expressed their own opinions right back, is all.

I don't think it is a matter of "status" as to who knows who, and who has read what. I think it is a simple matter of information sharing. I don't see writers here pulling rank or in the process of gaining status. Of course, you may see it differently than I do.

Hey, mindset is the same as yours. I read everything with a critical eye. I was professionaly trained that way. I look at evidence presented, the internal logic, and how it agrees or disagrees with what I already know, then I form my conclusions.

Nice chatting with you.

zev

there is an abundance of negativity here. i am not pointing fingers, unfortunately it comes from the thing we all share in common. a bitterness for what a membership in a cult has done to us.

personally, i recognize those that have an agenda, and exersize my freedom to point and click where ever the hell i want to and avoid threads i know wont bring me a positive thought.

i blame not those who are negative, but the reason why we are all here in universally the same. we all have in some way been hurt by the wtbts. we all show this hurt in different ways. we all do what we can to help others see it. in the end we step on toes. weather we mean to or not.

i'm one of the most negative people i know. i'm surounded by it.

but i see the light now, at the end of the tunnel.

and, my god, how good it feels to know that i will be free of the bondage very soon.

thanks to the person who directed me here...for the help i nneded.

eternally..

-Zev
-August 8th, 2001 - The day the lambs ROARED

larc

Teejay,

It bothers me that you have reached the conclusions that you have. I don't see a we-they status thing like you do. When you study your Psych. about the five sources of power, you will read about "expert power". If someone posts for a long time and with epertise, they have a certain power, respect, credibility, and status. I see nothing wrong with that. This level of status must be earned over a period of time. It takes hard work and endurance and is not gained over night.

Now who do I consider high credibility sources here: Waiting, RedHorseWoman, Frenchy, Pathothorns, Simon, Trevor, Ianao, Kent, Norm, AlanF, Amazing, Maximus, HillaryStep, Larc, Zazu, JAVA, Dogpatch, JanH, Grunt, Gopher, Thinker, Thinker's Wife, Simon's wife, Patio, Ginny Token, Tina, 2 lisas, JT, joel bear, Danny Bear, and others I can't think of now. I may not agree with them all the time. I may not agree with their approach, but each of these people have given me something "chewey" to think about. The low crediblity people for me are: Fred Hall, sf, Yadirf, You Know, God Rules, MDS, and bibleboy.

Teejay, you are in the middle of these extremes. When you start a thread on a serious subject with an in depth analysis, I will put you in the top category. By the way, your good posts about what you learned from social psych. was very good. I wish you would do more of that.

teejay

Hello, Larc,

I realized a bit late that you had responded here so my time is short at the moment. For now, do me a favor and tell me what you mean by "high credibility." Thanks.

peace,
tj

TheOldHippie

So KENT and NORM are HIGH-credibility sources? Wow! That's something!

thewiz

Zev - I thought it was richard dean anderson, but I wasn't sure (he certainly has aged). He's in another show now on the SCI-FI channel, Star Gate, I think. McGyver -I never did get used to a guy who could save the world starting with a tooth pick. Watched the show once for about 15 min.

I feel like playing twenty questions, but I'll hold out. I think I know who you are. I'd just like to know how you figured me out so quick. I'm usually very perceptive about these things and my hunches are more correct than not.

I haven't completely turned over to the "darkside." I know the Bible to be true, maybe some of you don't -but hey it's a free country. I always evaluate everything down to it's logical constructs. A friend of mine always says, "You know what Mao Tse Tung said, 'Everyone lives with contradictions'."

My interests are legion. Too many so I pretty much give up on them all. I'm a reader, big time (usually tech junk, it keeps me employed). Would like to throw the T.V. out the window, but it provides solace for my soul, cursed thing! Garbage-in-Garbage-out.

I like to take long walks on the beach, kittens, bondage, and uh...wrong forum!

Hey! I know Jackie Mason, does that get me in the "dropping names" club? [8>]

Pete

Hmmmm larc,

Isn't this a contradiction. You write:

I don't see a we-they status thing like you do.

Then you proceed to divide posters into groups -- those who have high credibility, low credibility and those like teejay who are in the middle.

Then you patronizingly tell teejay:

When you start a thread on a serious subject with an in depth analysis, I will put you in the top category.

Well, isn't that special!

I don't necessarily agree with teejay -- but isn't that the idea of the board? The freedom to agree and not to agree; to share our similar pasts as JWs? Your response truly gives substance to teejay's argument.

Wishing you the best larc, but still wincing when I recall your slam at teejay about him "driving his truck, listening to bozo radio."

Pete
pmf

Note to waiting: Pete, pmf -- and PeterStride are not the same.

Thank You Ray Franz.

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