having doubts..

by fairchild 32 Replies latest jw friends

  • fairchild
    fairchild
    Maybe what you are feeling is a need deep down to have a relationship with Jehovah again.

    I think I had a relationship with him *before* I joined the WTS. Yes, I do feel that need, but only for selfish reasons. I don't want death to be the end of everything. It's like wishing you found a bag of money. You could wish you found all that money, just so that you could be rich and never have to work again, or you could wish you found it just to help people who really needed it. Either way the chances of finding a bag of money are as slim as the chances of really finding God. But as they say, the journey is much more important than the destination. I don't know what my destination will be, but I do know that my journey is selfish and I feel guilty about it. That's a reason why I consider going back to the meetings. Now I am just sitting here, waiting until something falls into my lap. I'll die waiting.

    I echo the earlier thoughts on reading the New Testament. It provides a much different picture of God.

    It does, and I will read some, but it is still the same God they are talking about in the NT.

    Thank you Fleur, for that link. I will definitely read it when I get home from work tonight. Am in a hurry now, got to get ready for work. You are right, there are no easy answers. None. And sometimes I wonder.. are there even answers?

    Test your assumption of a "loving God". Does the world you experience really support that characterization?

    Absolutely not.

    but your friend would surely want you to live your life and be happy without having to lie to yourself.

    We had countless conversations about religion. One of our favorite things to do was to sit by the bonfire and read the bible. He was catholic, but went to the meetings with me every once in a while. I think we were both searching. When I was at the hospital with him during his last days here on earth, I don't know why, but one of the saddest things to me was seeing the rosary in his hands. Somehow it looked cruel, and I can't get the picture out of my mind.

    bizzybee, gosh, your words made me smile. Yes it is true that they have an answer for everything, and actually, that was one of the things that drew me to them in the first place. But the answers are not necessarily right, I know...

    Read "Life Before Life" - it's written by a doctor about children's stories of reincarnation

    Who's the author?

    Pretending something is true doesn't make it true. You can believe and wish and hope and pray as much as you want but you will not change a single atom of the universe by doing so.

    sigh, yes I know.

    Will returning to what you know was wrong when you left really help?

    I honestly don't know, but I am at a point where I would try just about anything. I can't even begin to tell you what the past few weeks have been like. The feeling of this loss being completely irreversible is just killing me. It keeps me out of my sleep and perhaps for the first time in my life, I understand the meaning of the word "depression". In a way I have been *blessed*, having had a very fair chance to say goodbye. But in spite of that, so many things were left unsaid. So many things were left not done. It is one thing to die of old age after a good life, but it is another thing to see a life cut short. No, I don't know if it would help, but anything beats sitting here and doing nothing to help myself. Perhaps there is "a god" out there who is trying to tell me something, because I was going to go to the bookstudy today, for the first time in over a year, and I woke up because the phone rang, I got called in to work tonight.

    I say find comfort and solace in nature. Look around. What do you see?

    I see everything that belonged to him. (we lived in the same house). I see the rosebush that died two years ago, until he decided to pray for it and miraculously it came back to life. I see too much of him right now.

    What happens to us when we die? Will we ever see our loved ones again?

    My gut feeling tells me that we will not see them again. That when we die, it is really over, but I desperately don't want to believe that.

    Thank you all so very much for the support. I am aware that a day will come when I can look back at this time without crying or feeling a burning pain inside, but I don't know when that day will come. It sure isn't here yet.

  • JamesThomas
    JamesThomas

    Dear Fairchild,

    Your dilemma is actually a simple one. You are lost in your mind; and using only your mind will lead you into endless unanswerable questions. Silently and patiently observe how thoughts, concepts and beliefs only weave a tighter web of confusion cutoff from any sense of comforting reality.

    What if awareness is taken off formulations and grand productions of the mind, what is here then? What is real?

    Come back to the vibrant aliveness of this present moment. Silently and without mental abstraction and commentary look deeper into the actuality which is here, and see if there is a peace beyond understanding of the mind.

    Be still, and know...

    alt

    j

  • fairchild
    fairchild

    Ah, James Thomas, that picture did make me smile. Horses (and cows) are my biggest fear in life.

    Your dilemma is actually a simple one. You are lost in your mind; and using only your mind will lead you into ;endless unanswerable questions.

    Yeah, so true. But using only my mind does keep me out of trouble most of the time.

  • tetrapod.sapien
    tetrapod.sapien

    fairchild, (one of my first JWD friends too)

    so sorry to hear about this.

    in my world, death is the end of conscious existence, forever. which is a heavy thought for me. if one of my friends died, i would cherish the mental freedom i have gained by leaving the borg, because it is the mental freedom that will allow me to live the next 50 years of my life to the fullest. if i went back to the borg, i would really only be kidding myself, and i would know it.

    we're out now, whether we like it or not. we can go back physically, but we'll never be back mentally. that's why i would say that, in the name of your friend, take the mental freedom you have gained, and live the rest of your life like it was the last time you would ever be conscious again. because while we don't know for sure what comes after death, living it like there was nothing is the one thing we can do right. you couldn't be a witness and do that.

    my 2 cents.

    email me anytime you want to talk.

    ts

  • nomoreTRUTHplz
    nomoreTRUTHplz

    I am so sorry for your loss. It is no wonder you would question things after losing a loved one. When I think back on my son being born and how he was sick and I thought he would die I found comfort in believing even if he died I would see him again in paradise. Now I look at my children and sometimes wonder what I have to offer them now. I understand when you say you want to know and to believe for selfish reasons, I have felt that way too. Sometimes it helps me to remember that Jesus did not tell his disciples everything until they were ready to handle it. Perhaps the only answer we really have from what we learned with the witnesses is that NO ONE has all the answers. Maybe accepting that needs to be enough at times. If you still pray I would suggest praying for strength and to have peace. Once again I am so sorry you are going through this trying time.

  • fairchild
    fairchild
    in my world, death is the end of conscious existence, forever. which is a heavy thought for me.

    Heavy, yes. To me, the thought of there being nothing feels too hard to bear at times. It almost doesn't seem to make sense. Why would we live if there was really absolutely nothing after this? What would the purpose be? And what about children who die? I can't shake off the thought that there has to be something deeper, something beyond our understanding. We usually fear the unknown, (I know I do). Maybe there is nothing to be afraid of, and maybe there is. Maybe there is nothing whatsoever after we die, and maybe there is something much better.

    I have been reading about near death experiences lately. I have also talked to a medium, she assured me that death is just another dimension. That it is a happy event. The strangest thing happened to me. Just 4 days before my friend died, I got visited by a woman I had never seen before. She talked to me about dying, and about how we keep on living afterwards, but without our bodies. When she left, she handed me her business card. She was a medium.

    Death has always been one of my worst fears. I think about it very often, at least several times a day and definitely every single night when I go to bed. It is an unhealthy fear, something I was born with I guess, but I don't think that most people fear death as much as I do. I went to college and become a hospice nurse, mainly to be able to understand the concept of death. It didn't help. I have seen many people dying during the 3 years I worked as a hospice nurse, I have held many hands of people who took their last breaths. Did it help me to understand? No, it did not.

    The feeling of loss is terrible. To see him suffer and get worse every day was terrible too. There came a day when I wished he would die, because he was suffering and there was no way back to health. In those last hours, I desperately wanted to tell him that it was okay to let go, and I couldn't make myself say the words, because it was not really okay. Nothing was okay about all this and it felt and still feels very wrong.

    we can go back physically, but we'll never be back mentally

    You are right. But perhaps I have not completely let go of it. It makes me think of the Little Prince in Antoine De Saint Exupery's story. He cared for his rose on his little planet. She told him that she was unique, the only rose in the universe. But then when he was on earth, he found a whole field with roses. He knew right there and then that the rose had been lying to him, but she was "his" rose and in his eyes, she was still unique. As he said to the fox, the rose had tamed him.

    Now I look at my children and sometimes wonder what I have to offer them now. I understand when you say you want to know and to believe for selfish reasons, I have felt that way too.

    Glad I'm not the only one. I know many JWs who are in it for the reward, that "paradise". But then I also remember the command "you MUST love God with your whole heart". If a righteous person like Moses who did love God made one mistake and wasn't even allowed to enter the promised land, after putting his life on hold to deal with the stubborn Israelites, then how, oh how in the world would any of us or any of the JWs stand a chance to get any reward at all? I don't know, I'm confused, really confused.

  • GoingGoingGone
    GoingGoingGone

    (((((((((((((fairchild)))))))))))))))

    I'm so very very sorry for your loss. I just read this thread, and I can't write much now, but I wanted you to know that I'm thinking of you and I have struggled with many of the same issues myself. Still am, actually.

    PM me if you want to talk. I'll look for you tomorrow.

    I'm sending all the positive energy I can your way.

    GGG

  • sass_my_frass
    sass_my_frass

    Hugs hon. Grief changes everything. I'm sorry that you have to go through this. Keep yourself active and keep looking at new things to keep your mind ticking over (ie stop it from circling senseless things).

  • ICBehindtheCurtain
    ICBehindtheCurtain

    ((((((((Fairchild))))))))I am very sorry for your loss. The fear of death being the final end is something that I struggled with also, it's a very frightening feeling coming from a JW background, we were so certain about where we were going after death, and we thought the WTS had all the answers, only to later realize we are back at square one after our eyes are opened. I like you, began researching Near Death Experiences and Reincarnation, and what I found has brought us much peace and happiness. I recommend you read "Old Souls" by Tom Shroder it's an amazing book. I know that ultimately we will only know when we die, but there's no reason why we shouldn't read the compelling evidence that is available to us now, if this will bring us peace.

    Much love and light to you Fairchild, you will be in my thoughts

    IC

  • fairchild
    fairchild

    Thank you all again and again, you have all offered much needed support.
    We buried him last Friday. The weather was beautiful, too beautiful to be buried I thought. It was a private burial with just the closest family and the closest friends, about 12 of us in total. I was glad that it was a private burial, because things got pretty emotional. The priest said "our citizenship is in heaven, not on earth" and the words stuck in my head. We had to say 3 heil Marys, one for Kevin, one for the next one in the family who will die and one for ourselves for when we die. I couldn't say the heil Marys as I didn't know the words. When the priest was done, we all put a rose on Kevin's casket and lingered for a while. I couldn't go to the dinner afterwards, because I just wanted to be alone. I have been to the cemetary every day since we buried him, somehow it seems to be giving me some peace of mind to sit by his grave and talk to him.
    I went to the city today and had an old roll of film put on CD so that I would have some pictures of him on my computer. I chose an old film roll, the pictures were taken 5 years ago, but I wish to remember him when he was still vibrant and full of life. Today was the first day I looked at his pictures since he died, and it was very, very painful. I would like to share a picture of him and me, it was taken a few miles from our house. We used to go to that spot and picnic on sunny days.
    (oops, I edited and took the picture out because it was taking up too much space and it messed up the size of this entire thread)
    I posted the picture on my own site, anyone who would like to take a look at it, it is right here..
    http://p066.ezboard.com/fwelcomehome46213frm36.showMessage?topicID=38.topic

    I also would like to share the tribute I wrote for him. I wrote it the night after he died.
    Oops, I am really messing this up. Now I also had to edit out the poem, because somehow the spaces between the lines got messed up. You can read it here.. http://p066.ezboard.com/fwelcomehome46213frm45.showMessage?topicID=8.topic

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