It seems to me the spirit is misleading people because many claim to be led by spirit but teach sometimes very different doctrines. They all cant be led by spirit.
Tor
Short Survey for Non-Trinitarians
by Amazing1914 56 Replies latest jw friends
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Amazing1914
Toreador,
You make a good point. I find that the Holy Spirit can overlook certain things, but not others. For example, things that seriously greive the Holy Spirit, or that sin against Him, certainly result in lacking His blessing, or abandoment altogether. However, the Trinity or Non-Trinity belief is, of itself, not really a salvation issue, therefore, the Holy Spirit can work with a person or even a group, though their beliefs vary.
The problem is that the Watchtower brainwashed us to believe that everything was black or white, right or wrong, good or bad, with no gray areas in between. So, with such cult-like thinking, we sometimes leave the Watchtower still using their thought processes to evaluate religions around us. And, it is no wonder that we come up with the same conclusions, because we really may not have changed the process we inherited.
When I am done with my paper on the nature of the Holy Spirit, I will get it posted and see if perhaps it helps some to take another long look at orthodox theology and employ different thought processes. If nothing else, I hope it will broaden their perspective.
Jim Whitney
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lovelylil
If you have the Holy Spirit you will cultivate the fruits of it which are listed in Galatians 5. Nowhere is head knowledge listed. Like Amazing says not everything is black and white. We do not have to be in agreement on everything like the Watchtower teaches. We can agree to disagree and give our views on either side but either way, our salvation is not at stake. The only thing we are required to do if we call ourselves Christian is to follow Christ and listen to his teachings. There are some basic doctrines that most Christians agree on. other than that, the bible is open to interpretation. There is a saying - The bible is like a fiddle, you can play many tunes on it. Many people have there own views and thats o.k. Our salvation does not depend on us being drones who act, look and speak alike all the time. If you read the New Testament, you will see that the early Christians sometimes had very heated arguements over issues too. And they certainly did not agree on everything.
Amazing, I do want to read your paper. If you can, please email me a copy to my box. I am open minded to listening to other's views. I by all means cannot say that I have all the truth or the only truth. I have not learned as much as I have since leaving the WT by not listening to others. I am learning new things every day.
For those who think you have to agree on everything, I am sorry but you are mistaken and you will never find fellowship with other Christians if you stick to that view. You only have to be convinced in your own mind. But you cannot force others to agree with you on everything. Lilly
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Amazing1914
Hi Lil,
I will send a copy of my paper along. I have to complete it soon, then recheck all of my references, verifying sources, and context. After that, I will issue a "draft" for peer review and comment. Then, when I incorporate comments and correct legitimate errors, then I will issue some preliminary copies. Would you like to be in the peer review process, or would you prefer to just read the finished product? Peer review can be demanding, but it can also be a blessing. let me know. - Jim Whitney
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toreador
Hello Jim,You make a good point. I find that the Holy Spirit can overlook certain things, but not others.
How do you determine what you think the Holy Spirit overlooks. Is it arbitrary? Questions I have had in conjunction with whether the Spirit actually leads people to a correct or true understanding are.
Some religions teach its ok, even blessing troops, before sending them out fighting for their country. Often times these troops are killing those of like faith on the other side. Some religions teach pacifism. Both certainly cant be led by HS.
Others teach God will eternally torment those in a fiery torment and some do not.
There are those who teach glossalalia or speaking in tongues, is a requirement.
Some pray to Saints and Mary asking forgiveness. Some teach this is wrong. Both groups claiming to be led by HS.
The problem is that the Watchtower brainwashed us to believe that everything was black or white, right or wrong, good or bad, with no gray areas in between. So, with such cult-like thinking, we sometimes leave the Watchtower still using their thought processes to evaluate religions around us. And, it is no wonder that we come up with the same conclusions, because we really may not have changed the process we inherited.
I hear what you are saying but the scriptures also speak of unity and the casting out of heretics. If the spirit is a divided as you say it can be and the people or groups still being guided by HS, I just dont see that as possible.
When I am done with my paper on the nature of the Holy Spirit, I will get it posted and see if perhaps it helps some to take another long look at orthodox theology and employ different thought processes. If nothing else, I hope it will broaden their perspective.
I look forward to reading it Jim. THank you for your comments. Tor -
lovelylil
Jim,
I think I will read the finished product and then give you feedback. Only because I am so busy with bible study and helping to teach others. Also, I am working on several research projects myself. And on top of this, a friend in India who mails out a Christian Magazine has recently asked me to write short articles and poems for his mag. But, I will read your paper, as I am always open to other people's views. And I think you are a good example of someone trying to work with the Spirit! Lilly
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lovelylil
Tor,
There are some doctrines we should agree on as Christians such as that Christ paid the ransom for our sins, and then died and on the third day was resurrected. Also that the Bible is from God and he is our creator. And some other basic doctrines. However, early Christians did disagree on some issues. And like Jim pointed out, everything is not black and white. I dont believe anyone or any one religion really has ALL the right answers. But you can tell if someone or some group as the Holy Spirit by the fruit it bares. You will have Love, joy, peace....see Galatians 5 for the rest. You are correct not everyone has it. Those like the WT and others who put down everyone but themselves and says they are Satanic, without even knowing all their personal views, is really showing they do not have the right Spirit. Also like you mentioned, those who can kill others you would question as to whether they had the spirit or not.
We can debate mildly about some issues (like the EXACT nature of the Holy Spirit) but must do so with mildness of spirit, not name calling or being aggressive. We have to look at all fellow Christians as ones that can teach us. Not only we trying to teach them. Ultimately though it is not even head knowledge that shows who is Jesus' diciples and who has Holy Spirit, but LOVE that shows us for who we really are. Lilly