Does forever mean forever?

by I_love_Jeff 22 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • The Searcher
    The Searcher

    Same situation applies to 'everlasting' - aiōnios

    According to the Org's doctrine, everyone in the 1st century were 'heavenly-hopers', and yet they were never offered/promised immortality by Jesus - only 'everlasting' life, the same thing that the second-class 'other sheep' expect!

  • Magnum
    I_love_Jeff: Just to let everyone know in case you are curious about the previous question regarding Paradise Earth, I am almost finished with my notes and plan on posting them soon.
    Please do post them. I want soon to start my own studies, but right now am short on time. I would like to benefit from your efforts.

  • I_love_Jeff
    Professor Knappe of Halle wrote, "The Hebrew was destitute of any single word to express endless duration. The pure idea of eternity is NOT FOUND IN ANY OF THE ANCIENT LANGUAGES." (CAPS emphasis
    are mine).
  • Village Idiot
    Village Idiot
    Is olam the word that the New World Translation translates as "time indefinite"?
  • I_love_Jeff
    Many Non Hebrew written Bibles mistranslate the word "olam"
  • Perry
    Lexicon: Strong's [ever]

    d[ `ad, ad; from 05710; properly, a (peremptory) terminus, i.e. (by implication) duration, in the sense of advance or perpetuity (substantially as a noun, either with or without a preposition):--eternity, ever(- lasting, -more), old, perpetually, + world without end.

  • I_love_Jeff
    Perry- The Ancient Hebrews saw it differently. English translators changed the meaning to the English way of thinking and so on and so forth.
  • I_love_Jeff
    More recent teachings springs from a failure to study the meaning of the Hebrew word olam ( עֹלָם ) in the Old Testament and an ignorance of various linguistic principles.
  • Vidqun

    Here’s some research I did a while back on the word, specifically relating to the book of Daniel (I removed the Hebrew fonts. They don’t transfer well):

    Hidden or remote time. Aram. (sing.) or (plur.); 2:44b; Heb. sometimes m., pl.—what is hidden; specially hidden time, long; the beginning or end of which is either uncertain or else not defined. 2:44a never. According to context, it could point to: 1) Of time long past, antiquity, e.g., Deut. 32:7; Am. 9:11; Mic. 7:14; Is. 63:9. 2) Mostly it refers to future time, in such a manner, that what is called the terminus ad quem, is always defined from the nature of the thing itself.

    Its etymology has been and remains disputed or at best uncertain, and the various studies suggest that no real progress has been made. Following E. Jenni, most scholars translate `oulām as “long time” or “farthest, remotest time.” Various nuances of this translation must then also be distinguished contextually. See TDOT, vol. X, p. 531.

    The book of Daniel contains 5 occurrences in Hebrew (9:24; 12:2[bis]; 3, 7), 18 in Aramaic (2:4, 20[bis], 44[bis]; 3:9; 4:3; 4:34[bis]; 5:10; 6:6, 21, 26; 7:14, 18[ter], 27) of which 9:24 (Hebrew) and 2:4, 44; 3:9; 5:10; 6:6, 21, 26 (Aramaic) as well as one of the occurrences in 7:18 are plural. Dnl. 2:4; 3:9; 5:10; 6:21 belong to the royal greeting (cf. also 6:6). Dnl. 2:44; 4:3; 4:34, and 6:26 also make clear that the concern (as in the book of Daniel in a larger sense) is not only with the coming divine rule “forever,” but also with extolling the present and the future rule as being perpetual.

    The assertion that “everlasting righteousness” (9:24) will be brought to the people and the city (cf. 11QPs a 16) then focuses more unequivocally on the new future, and Dnl. 2:44; 7:14, 18; 12:2f. make clear that, and how, the present “age of the world” will end and the new age (this age too, as the final one!) will commence. At that time “many” will be raised to “everlasting life” (12:2), others to everlasting shame and contempt.

    Resurrection thus functions here as a solution to the problem of theodicy and as instrument for balancing things out between the good and the wicked, neither of whom will or may be permitted to end with death only. Here `oulām/`ālam acquires the meaning of “world/age of the world” (cf. already Ps. 104:5; 148:6; Is. 40:28), something that then developed further in early Jewish literature. See TDOT, vol. X, pp. 542, 543, and TDNT, vol. I, pp. 202-206 under aioun, aiouvios.

    According to TDOT, vol. XI, p. 149, an etymological relationship between `lm and `oulām seems unlikely. However, I personally believe that the word is indeed semantically related to the verb `ālam and the noun ta`älumâ belonging to the semantic field “to hide.” That’s the only way to make sense of it.

  • I_love_Jeff
    THANK YOU Vidqun!!

Share this