Final Fight - Round 1

by KW13 24 Replies latest jw friends

  • KW13

    I did something smart lol!

    Firstly talking respecfully to my mum got further than shouting so now the last ideas...

    Firstly i e-mailed the British Musuem, ask about their tours, information on things they have on the site and all that. This will enable me to take mum there and SHOW her the truth.

    Secondly and finally i've decided i want to contact the United Nations.

    Let me know your thoughts.

    (sorry for not doing all i said i am going to here just yet, got a lot to do regarding this)


    OH and the oddest thing, i prayed that mum wouldn't go to the meeting on the Sunday and guess what?! There she was sat downstairs and we had a huge chat about JW's

  • jojochan
    OH and the oddest thing, i prayed that mum wouldn't go to the meeting on the Sunday and guess what?! There she was sat downstairs and we had a huge chat about JW's

    XD!!! I had to laugh at that one.

    Well done, but tread lightly....the scariest thing for you to do right now is to free a JW's mind so abruptly. Take it slow. It will be fine.

    Oh, yeah...Pm if you would like on the J Dilla donuts, and your opinon on that record.



  • Sad emo
    Sad emo

    Hi KW13

    What you've done with your mum so far is brilliant. Congrats!

    Now, I don't want to dampen your spirits, you sound really excited at what's happened so far, but the danger is that this might cause you to try and push things too hard or quicker than she is able to cope with. There's a big difference between talking about things and presenting real hard evidence. If she isn't ready for it, you may frighten her off and she may even retreat further into her beliefs.

    I'm not saying don't do what you're planning - just take it steady - all the best!

  • KW13

    Right i got my reply from the British Museum

    Firstly i sent only ONE e-mail saying...

    Hello my name is XXXXX

    My mum is a Jehovah's Witness and her faith teaches her that Jerusalem was finally destroyed in 607 BCE when i know the date to be 586/7 BCE. I have found things using Compass on the British Museum Website that are helpful to my search for facts, already i've established 586/7 off your site.

    There are some things i need to prove to my mum, here they are...

    Firstly the Cuneiform tablet with part of the Babylonian Chronicle (605-594). Before i discuss this with mum i need to know that this is accepted FACT and nothing will change what it says or affect its content. For example the Jehovah's Witnesses have a book called 'Insight into the Scriptures' and there is a picture of the same tablet with different dating which of course is cause for concern. Lets say i wanted to come down to the Museum with my mum and show her this tablet what will it say to disprove her date 607 BCE for Jerusalem's destruction?

    I know Nebuchadnezzar first came to Jerusalem to put a different king on the throne and led some from Jerusalem as captive, if this dates that then it will put the Destruction as later thus disproving 607 BCE.

    Then the two Lachish Letters. These prove the date to NOT be 607 BCE?

    The reason i am asking for more details is because i intend to come down to the M useum at some point. Are there any other things at the Museum that will prove the date of Jerusalem's destruction by the Babylonians in 586/7 BCE?

    Also i would like to bring to your attention the fact that YEARLY Jehovah's Witnesses are shown around your Museum on a private tour which is used to prove the date 607 BCE, which is vital to their chronology for Christ's Invisible return to Heaven.

    From XXXX

    They replied with TWO e-mails, here they are... Dear Karl As you rightly say the Lachish letters prove the date to be 587 B.C.E., from the Red text: Lachish Letter II

    Israelite, 586 BC
    From Lachish (modern Tell ed-Duweir), Israel

    A letter written on a piece of pottery

    This is one of a group of letters written on ostraka (pot sherds) found near the main gate of ancient Lachish in a burnt layer which archaeologists have associated with the destruction of the city by the Babylonians in 586 BC. It is written in ink in alphabetic Hebrew. The letters are a poignant record of the city's last days.

    In 598 BC Nebuchadnezzar, King of Babylon, invaded Judah after it had rebelled against him. He captured Jerusalem and took the royal family captive. He installed Zedekiah, the former king's uncle, as his choice of ruler. However, rebellion broke out again. Nebuchadnezzar showed no mercy this time and in 587 BC he beseiged and then destroyed Jerusalem.

    This was the period at which this letter was written. It came from an officer named Hosha'yahu who was in charge of a military outpost. He was writing to Ya'osh, military commander at Lachish, as the situation worsened.

    'To my lord Ya'osh. May Yahweh cause my lord to hear the news of peace, even now, even now. Who is your servant but a dog that my lord should remember his servant?'

    Peace was not to be. Nebuchadnezzar moved on to Lachish and nearby Azekah, the last two major cities of Judah to be subdued by the Babylonians. There followed a large-scale deportation of a part of Judah's population. Thus began the exile, a period of great significance for the Jews spiritually, and one which would profoundly influence later religious ideology and teaching.

    Height: 9 cm
    Width: 10 cm

    Excavated by J. L. Starkey, Wellcome-Marston Research Expedition.

    ANE 125702

    Room 57 , The Ancient Levant

    J.N. Tubb, Canaanites (London, The British Museum Press, 1998), p. 121, fig. 81

    T.C. Mitchell, The Bible in the British Museum: interpreting the evidence (London, The British Museum Press, 1988), p. 78-79, no. 41

    I would recommend the books above both are available in the Reading Room.

    Yours sincerely

    Reading Room Supervisor
    Learning and Information Department

    British Museum
    [email protected]

  • KW13

    Dear Karl From Compass, note the text in red which states Nebuchadnezzar invaded Jerusalem 15/16 March 597 B.C.E. 10 yeaars before 607 B.C.E. but also 10 years before
    in 586/7 BCE:
    Cuneiform tablet with part of the Babylonian Chronicle (605-594 BC) Neo-Babylonian, about 550-400 BC From Babylon, southern Iraq

    Nebuchadnezzar II's campaigns in the west This tablet is one of a series that summarises the principal events of each year from 747 BC to at least 280 BC. Each entry is separated by a horizontal line and begins with a reference to the year of reign of the king in question. Following the defeat of the Assyrians (as described in the Chronicle for 616-609 BC), the Egyptians became the greatest threat to the Babylonians. In 605 Nebuchadnezzar, the Babylonian crown prince, replaced his father Nabopolassar as commander-in-chief and led the army up the Euphrates to the city of Charchemish. There he defeated the Egyptians. Later that year Nabopolassar died and Nebuchadnezzar returned to Babylon to be crowned. Over the next few years he kept his control over Syria and extended it into Palestine. In 601 BC he marched to Egypt, but withdrew on meeting the Egyptian army. After re-equipping his army, Nebuchadnezzar marched to Syria in 599 BC. He marched westwards again, in December 598 BC, as Jehoiakim, the king of Judah, had ceased to pay tribute. Nebuchadnezzar's army besieged Jerusalem and captured it on 15/16th March 597 BC. The new king of Judah, Jehoiachin, was captured and carried off to Babylon. A series of expeditions to Syria brings this Chronicle to an end in 594 BC.
    Length: 8.25 cm
    Width: 6.19 cm ANE
    21946 Room 55 , Later Mesopotamia, case 15, no. 24

    J.B. Pritchard, Ancient Near Eastern texts relating to the Old Testament, 3rd ed. (Princeton University Press, 1969), pp. 563-4 T.C. Mitchell, The Bible in the British Museum: interpreting the evidence (London, The British Museum Press, 1988), pp. 82-3, no. 43

    D.J. Wiseman, Chronicles of Chaldaean kings (626-556 BC) in the British Museum (London, Trustees of the British Museum, 1956), pp. 66-75, plates XIV-XVI A.K. Grayson, Babylonian and Assyrian chronicles (Locust Valley, J.J. Augustin, 1975), pp. 99-102 If you would like further information we have books available in the museum's Reading Room on this subject or you can contact the Department of the Ancient Near East. Here is their email address.

    [email protected]

    Yours sincerely

    Reading Room Supervisor

    Learning and Information Department

  • KW13

    Oh and thanks you jojochan and Sad emo.

    I promise to take it all steady, i did get a bit rushed there.

  • Crumpet

    I am just so impressed at the efforts you are making. I wish I'd been as bright as you at 17 - maybe then I might have had a chance at helpign my parents and sisters!

  • KW13

    Thanks Crumpet, its just having seen how it affected me and having you guys here who showed me a lot of things that i realised its not just me and that i can prove things!

  • bebu

    Kwin, I'm so impressed! That was a very well-condensed and non-threatening presentation of the issues you were dealing with. A great resource.

    You remember how you felt when you first started learning the problems--that the rug was pulled out? I think your experience will help them land better if they come to the same conclusions you did.


  • misspeaches

    Hey KW13 - you astound me! I am so impressed with how much you care about your mum and want to open her eyes! And you've put so much thought into this. At the age of 17 as well. Seriously I wish you all the very very best. I think your amazing

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