Did Satan lie?

by moomanchu 58 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • moomanchu

    God said ,

    You shall not eat from it or touch it,

    or you will die.

    The serpent said to the woman,

    You surely shall not die!

    For God knows that in the day you

    eat from it your eyes will be opened

    and you will be like God, knowing

    good and evil.

    If Satan was one of the governing body

    he could easily get out of this lie.

    1.Hey, I meant you wouldn't die today or tommorow.

    2. I meant just touch it with a stick or something.

    3. I meant wait on Jehovah for the fruit to fall off,

    then only eat a fraction of the fruit.

    4. Actually I meant You surely shall not die!

    if you don't eat from it !!!!!

    I made a statement :You surely shall not die!

    then I made another statement:

    For God knows that in the day you

    eat from it your eyes will be opened

    and you will be like God, knowing

    good and evil.

    You read to much into it!!!!

    I didn't mean the two statements to be connected.

    Think of any other WTBS reasoning to help

    Satan out of this lie.(I mean old light.)

  • moggy lover
    moggy lover

    Actually, moomanchu You do have a point. Yep Satan lied, but what's more, so does the GB today. Lets ''reason'' on this OK? Boy! do the JWs hate it when we use their own buzz words back on them.

    What did Satan promise Adam and Eve? That they could live forever on a paradise earth!!

    What does the GB promise recruits to their organisation? All you have to do is look at the opening pages of their recruiting manuals. Consistently, in every one of these books [Truth book, Knowledge Book, I have'nt seen their latest venture something about what the Bible really teaches] is prominently displayed a sylized conventional picture of a fruitful "paradise " earth [Complete with smoothly shaved chins and closely cropped hair and buttons on shirts and zippers for flys - all somehow courtesy of a smog free atmosphere and nary a smokestack in sight]

    In fact, according to their own vaunted claims their most sucessful recruiting manual ever was - yup - you guessed it. "You CAN Live Forever in Paradise on Earth" Not maybe. Not we hope so. Not we can only try. Oh no. It had to be dogmatic, like Satan You Can Can Can......lies... lies....

    Just as Satan was sucessful in Eden, so also he is sucessful today when his servants follow his example so closely.

    I rest my case.


  • jstalin

    Satan didn't lie, god did.

    Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

    God said Adam would die the day he ate the fruit.

    The serpant said:

    Genesis 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

    3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

    There's even dispute that the serpant is indeed Satan, but assuming it is, he simply told Eve that she wouldn't die that day, as god had said. Satan told her that it would open her eyes and she would know good and evil.

    Adam and Eve both ate the fruit and they didn't die that day, as god had said. So, who lied? God did. Satan simply told them the truth.

  • Legolas

    Jstalin...To the JW's 'day' can mean a thousand years...So with that thinking god didn't lie

    And no I don't think satan lied!...Because it is all just a fairy tail.

  • sinis

    The book of Enoch indicates that Satan was not the serpent, it was another angel.

    Chapter 68


    After this judgment they shall be astonished and irritated; for it shall be exhibited to the inhabitants of the earth.


    Behold the names of those angels. These are their names. The first of them is Samyaza; the second, Arstikapha; the third, Armen; the fourth, Kakabael; the fifth, Turel; the sixth, Rumyel; the seventh, Danyal; the eighth, Kael; the ninth, Barakel; the tenth, Azazel; the eleventh, Armers; the twelfth, Bataryal; the thirteenth, Basasael; the fourteenth, Ananel; the fifteenth, Turyal; the sixteenth, Simapiseel; the seventeenth, Yetarel; the eighteenth, Tumael; the nineteenth, Tarel; the twentieth, Rumel; the twenty-first, Azazyel.


    These are the chiefs of their angels, and the names of the leaders of their hundreds, and the leaders of their fifties, and the leaders of their tens.


    The name of the first is Yekun: (68) he it was who seduced all the sons of the holy angels; and causing them to descend on earth, led astray the offspring of men.

    (68) Yekun may simply mean "the rebel" (Knibb, p. 160).


    The name of the second is Kesabel, who pointed out evil counsel to the sons of the holy angels, and induced them to corrupt their bodies by generating mankind.


    The name of the third is Gadrel: he discovered every stroke of death to the children of men.


    He seduced Eve; and discovered to the children of men the instruments of death, the coat of mail, the shield, and the sword for slaughter; every instrument of death to the children of men.
  • Crumpet

    Well God lies - ie It didn;t come into his heart to burn human's alive like they did in Hinnom to another God but he was quite happy to burn the residents of Sodom & Gomorrah.

  • BlessedStar

    Satan lied - he is a liar and lies all the time.


  • robhic

    "The book of Enoch indicates that Satan was not the serpent, it was another angel."

    See? Just like present days, someone --ANYone -- can do bad or wrong stuff and blame it on SATAN! He's been the ultimate scape goat for thousands of years.

    And satan didn't lie because A&E didn't die the day of eating the fruit -- as GOD said they would. God's the liar but satan gets all the blame AND it looks like he wasn't even there!

  • undercover

    Ah, my favorite Bible story.

    If anyone wants to study the Bible with any "christian" group, insist on starting in Genesis. If you even get past the whole creation nonsense, you can have some real fun with the A&E story.

    First of all Satan isn't mentioned as a charater in the story. All it says is "serpent".

    But whether you accept the notion as the serpent as Satan or not, the serpent only had two lines in the entire Bible.

    “Is it really so that God said you must not eat from every tree of the garden?”

    “You positively will not die. For God knows that in the very day of your eating from it your eyes are bound to be opened and you are bound to be like God, knowing good and bad.”

    The first line is a question. No direct statement is made, therefore not a lie.

    The second line is broke down into three assertions.

    1. You positively will not die.

    2. your eyes are bound to be opened

    3. bound to be like God, knowing good and bad

    So did the serpent lie?

    1. A& E did not die the day they ate the fruit as they were told they were.

    2. Their eyes were opened. They came to realize they were naked.

    3. and they came to know good and bad. God himself admitted that.

    No, the serpent did not lie.

    For those that believe that A&E lost eternal life, no where is the assertion made that they ever had it to begin with. In fact, God drove them out of the Garden to ensure that they did not eat of the Tree of Life thereby gaining everlasting life.

  • mineralogist

    Satan didn't lie but Jehova! Because Adam & Eve should have died on that specific day. Recently we had that discussion on a german board and one went into the library to check comments and hebrew language. It is something with yom=day (24hour) and mot tamût=dying to death (not(!) becoming mortal).

    For anyone able to read german: „Baum der Erkenntnis“ und das mögliche Todesurteil

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