Is baptism necessary?

by ozziepost 48 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    GiR,

    You must read further. In Revelation 20 (as it stands) there is no "testing by Satan" for the resurrected, just judgement for their past actions. Moreover, they are resurrected after Satan is done with. After heavens and earth disappear. Before new heavens and a new earth appear. Between two worlds so to say.

    When the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison and will come out to deceive the nations at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, in order to gather them for battle; they are as numerous as the sands of the sea. They marched up over the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from heaven and consumed them. And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
    Then I saw a great white throne and the one who sat on it; the earth and the heaven fled from his presence, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, the book of life. And the dead were judged according to their works, as recorded in the books. And the sea gave up the dead that were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and all were judged according to what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire; and anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
  • Honesty
    Honesty
    You must read further. In Revelation 20 (as it stands) there is no "testing by Satan" for the resurrected, just judgement for their past actions. Moreover, they are resurrected after Satan is done with. After heavens and earth disappear. Before new heavens and a new earth appear. Between two worlds so to say.

    Excellent, Nark. Isn't it a shame the JW's are brainwashed into picking and choosing scriptures instead of reading them in their context.

    Maybe GIR will take the time to research the second death and the first resurrection using other venues than the WACKTOWER publications.

  • ozziepost
    ozziepost

    very interesting comments - I'm glad to see that for so many there is no longer a dependency on the WTS to reinvent (reinterpret?) what the scriptures say. Yet, ironically, the WTS continually boasts that it alone has Bible-basedâ„¢ teachings.

    So often when considering a teaching or a doctrine we need to ask whether the Bible actually does say what we may have believed it did say.

    To me, this would also apply to baptism, not that it's wrong, of course not, since there was a command to make disciples "baptising them" but whether that is mandatory is another matter.

    I guess it all gets back to whether salvation is earned or whether it truly is a gracious gift, eh?

  • stevenyc
    stevenyc

    Ozman: So often when considering a teaching or a doctrine we need to ask whether the Bible actually does say what we may have believed it did say.

    BINGO! We have a winner

    steve

  • gumby
    gumby
    I guess it all gets back to whether salvation is earned or whether it truly is a gracious gift, eh?

    Correct Ozzmeister! A gift doesn't need an act to preceed it.

    I guess all of you who feel baptism is a definate requirement for salvation into heaven must also believe that ALL the ones mentioned in the book of Hebrews Chap 11 must have ALL gotten baptised then eh?

    Can someone direct me to the scriptures that tell of Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, getting baptised?

    Jesus himself said" I want mercy, not sacrifice" when quoting from the O.T. Did Jesus feel this "sacrifice" of baptism.... was greater than mercy shown on the part of an unbaptised believer?

    From a biblical perspective....I cannot believe god would hold out on salvation to one not yet baptised.....unless the believer had bad and ungodly motives for not getting baptised and the lord KNEW his heart was bad.

    Gumbaptised-in-baptist-waters

  • stevenyc
    stevenyc

    When John the 'Baptist' baptized Jesus, was John already a Christian?

    steve

  • gumby
    gumby
    When John the 'Baptist' baptized Jesus, was John already a Christian?

    He was a christian before he baptised Jesus. When he saw Jesus coming he said, "see the lamb of god who takes away the sin of the world". John recognised Jesus role and honored his belief in the baptism of Jesus.

    Sadly......according to Watchtower philosophy, ol' John has to pick apples, build houses, and sit under a fig tree for the rest of his life right here on earth. At least the poor old bastard won't hafta eat Locusts and honey and wear Sonny and Cher clothes anymore..... and he can have fruit salad coming out his arse.

  • stevenyc
    stevenyc

    Gumby: He was a christian before he baptised Jesus. When he saw Jesus coming he said, "see the lamb of god who takes away the sin of the world". John recognised Jesus role and honored his belief in the baptism of Jesus.

    So, what was he baptising all the other people in? (not the jorden)

    Gumby: Sadly......according to Watchtower philosophy, ol' John has to pick apples, build houses, and sit under a fig tree for the rest of his life right here on earth. At least the poor old bastard won't hafta eat Locusts and honey and wear Sonny and Cher clothes anymore..... and he can have fruit salad coming out his arse.

    W T F ???? Sorry you lost me on that one. Let me roll up a fat one to get on your wavelength.

    steve

  • RubaDub
    RubaDub

    "Is baptism necessary ???"

    It is if you want to carry the microphones.

    Rub a Dub

  • RubaDub
    RubaDub

    "Is baptism necessary?"

    It is if you want to carry the microphones.

    Rub a Dub

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