Apostasy or Immorality?

by jwfacts 16 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • jwfacts

    The Watchtower used to say that most people got disfellowshipped for immorality. Do you think this is still the case? It seems to me that i am hearing of as many people leaving over apostasy as over immorality, or am i just hanging out in the wrong circles?

    I also am finding a lot of old friends that were disfellowshipped for sex, but now they are out are looking on the internet and realise it is not the truth, so have stopped planning to go back. Disfellowshipping is starting to be counter productive.

    I can not imagine the WTS ever admitting that people are leaving for apostasy in droves, they have always tried to make those that leave as weak immoral people yearning to come back to 'mother'.

    What are you finding, with the people that you are hearing about?

  • tetrapod.sapien
    leaving over apostasy as over immorality

    i'm not sure about what is going on. but personally, i go in for both at the same time. ;)


  • wednesday

    Years ago there was no net..I'd have been goen 15 years earler if there had had been the net.


  • aniron

    From what I have picked up from those JW's still in contact with me. Going by whats happening in local congregations. Is that disfellowshipping for immorality etc is the last resort. Knowing what has gone on in my old congregation and what some have done, and only been "reproved" I can believe that immorality is not viewed as it once was.

    I do know of one person who was disfellowshipped, learnt about the WT , and recently became a Christian.

    It seems now to becoming case of keep the fornicators. adulterers, pedophiles, wife beaters ..........but get rid of anyone one who questions the organisation or turns apostate.

  • dozy

    From what I experience in my own cong & from speaking to COs & others , the overwhelming majority are still DFd for immorality (or more accurately porneia). According to our last elders school , the overwhelming number (over 80%) are DF'd on these grounds , with the balance made up mainly of smoking , drinking and other "conduct" grounds. There are still very few DF'd or DA'd for outright apostasy , although there does seem to be a small but growing number (especially among younger ones) who are studying about JWs online & coming to a conclusion that they either they don't want to be baptised or are fading.

    Looking at the statistics for Scotland , out of 14K witnesses , only 5 posters are on the "UK Map". Not even all of these left for traditional "apostate" reasons. No doubt there are others who do not wish to be identified and many who don't post or associate with ex-witnesses , but this still makes up a tiny percentage.

    I find in talking to fellow witnesses that peoples' devotion & loyalty to the Org is still very strong & few will talk openly about any doubts or issues.

  • jwfacts

    I think the results may be rigged somewhat. My very apostate friend was d/f for loose conduct rather than apostasy. The elders took offense to the way he spoke to them and the attitude he showed in the elders meeting, rather than what his views were about the organisation.

    I know of others that are d/f for immorality, but the reason for their behaviour is a loss of belief and so should be attributed to apostasy rather than porneia.

    I also am under the impression that a number of people fade once they realise it is not the truth. Therefore the d/f figures may not be affected but the publisher figures are.

    Only 85000 were d/f in 2005 but 175000 publishers became inactive, many of the additional 90000 were possibly apostate.,

  • Dr Jekyll
    Dr Jekyll

    I think sex will always be the top reason for being Df'd, its just human nature and doesn't require the work involved in going out there and doing the research to find out the "truth" is a crock of shit. I do however believe Elders would try and get you on anything else other than apostasy. Think about how bad it sounds coming from the platform when name after name is read out as no longer being one of Jehovah's witnesses and a talk on apostasy is given. It sounds to the rank and file that somethings definitely wrong and that the Elders, the spiritual shepherds of the flock are failing in there duties.

    I also am finding a lot of old friends that were disfellowshipped for sex, but now they are out are looking on the internet and realise it is not the truth, so have stopped planning to go back. Disfellowshipping is starting to be counter productive.

    I faded but still believed. Had I still been in I would have followed the orgs instructions and stayed away from religious apostate sites and so would never have found out the REAL truth. However the elders lost this little sheep and I was able to see for myself exactly how bad the Wolves really are. Far from being the Religious Nutters that I was once warned about I've found a bunch of ordinary people. Bit of a let down really.

  • dozy

    I agree that is often easier to "prove" immorality or "loose conduct" than apostasy , which is often a rather nebulous ground to DF people for , so this may mask the statistics somewhat. I just don't see , on the ground , any dramatic increase in questioning or criticism. When the 1995 "generation" change happened , I was expecting some discord - it just didn't happen.

  • Honesty

    The local elders had questions about my 'moral standards' when I first expressed doubts that the WTBTS had been honest with the 'Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses'. When those tactics failed, the question of loyalty to the organization became a paramount issue with several of the more brainwashed and aggressive elders. One of the P.O.'s sons was announced as no longer being one of Jehovah's Witnesses a few months ago and the rumour mill went into high gear that he had been DF'd. I believe this was an attempt by the BOE to create the impression that he had engaged in immorality instead of his discovering that the Watchtower Society is an evil God dishonoring cult.

  • TheListener

    I think soon the society will define apostasy as porneai.

    Witnesses consider false religion a whore. Among other things witnesses consider porneai anything that would occur at a brothel. Hence mingling with false religion would be porneai.


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