Commentary

by Seven 51 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Frenchy

  MDS:
  You seem to have given us much more information about ‘the report’ than anyone else. Previously no one wanted to say very much about it. Do your associates approve of your disclosure of this information?
  

  The person we refer to is not known at all, at the present time...and has not introduced himself to the world at present…This personage, his name, and other particulars will surface at the dawn of the "Great War," spoken of at Daniel 10:1 (NIV), also at Matt. 24:7 , and Rev. 6:4 .

  
  Is the writer of the report this person?
  If not, then is the writer of the report a prophet raised in our day to declare this person? (Like John the Baptist did for Jesus?)
  Who is this King of the North that is at such odds with the WTS.
  The United States is now the supreme military power on this earth. In terms of armament, fire power, and control of sea, land, and air and to the extent that it can deliver its deadly firepower it is the greatest world power that has ever existed in the history of man. Yet you say that a “great "war" machine, who now reigns supreme earthwide.” What is this “great war machine”?

  As for the WTS changing to accommodate political governments, this has already begun. It’s not too far fetched to extrapolate that it will continue. History teaches us that when religions get really big that there are splits. As a matter of fact, it happened early on in the history of JW’s. There are still ‘Bible Students’, adherents of Pastor Russell that are around to this day. There are many disenchanted JW’s today, good, honest, sincere people who have left the hypocrisy of the WTS and feeling a deep need to worship are reaching out. It is not inconceivable that at least some of these will eventually come together.
  Nor would I be surprised to know that right now forces are coming together at the world headquarters that will split the society in two.
  Fourteen years you say. Well, I might very well not be around to see that anyway. This is all very interesting, I grant you. So what are you proponents of this prophet doing meanwhile?

  -Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-
• 

  MDS

  Hi Zep:

  We are speaking of now, the "deep things of God," ... you have gone very, very deep:

  So, now, we speak of something different...

  A parallel situation...

  2 "Israels" "atoned" for ...

  2 Messiahs, appointed for each "Israel."

  2 "parousia's" or 2 "comings" of a messiah...

  toward 2 different, completely different "generations", 2 Jewish system of things...that must be concluded...brought to an end. -- Matthew 24th chapter.

  Jesus and a "mystery" one.

  One for the first century, and one for our day and time. 2 "Israels," 2 "messiahs," sent by Jehovah God, to "save Israel." -- Romans 11:26

  Literally, the Hebrew express for "Day of Atonement," could have been rendered "Day of Atonement"S" plural... or "day of covering"S" as pointed out in the "Insight On The Scriptures," under the word "Atonement," and other reference material on the subject.

  So, literally, we begin to see MORE THAN one "atonement", one "covering," but "coverings" ... 2 (Two)... being accomplished here, and pictured here, at each annual celebration. More than one "covering" or "atonement" covering more than "one" Israel...actually 2 (two) "Israels."

  In that celebration...2 goats are featured. Two make an "atonement," for "Israel," but, in completely different ways. 2 completely different ways, "atonement" is accomplished for "Israel."

  The first one is killed, but the other "goat" is "presented alive before Jehovah," where all sins are confessed and laid upon its head, and the "live goat," is then, sent away into the wilderness.

  The person we speak of, then, claims to be the SECOND "goat,"... the "scapegoat." The one involved in the SECOND ATONEMENT of the Second "Israel," the "Israel" of our times.

  He presents himself to be:

  A "Scapegoat," that has been "ATONED for," exclusively by the "blood of Jesus."

  As we remember, the "Day of Atonement celebrations, featured 2 (Two) Goats for Sacrifice. -- Leviticus 16th chapter.

  The first "goat," pictured, is Jesus. This goat is promptly sacrificed, with no procedure being made to "atone" for it. It pictures Jesus' PERFECT, sinless sacrifice, before Jehovah God, which completely "removed" the sins of Israel of his day.

  However, the second "goat," is handled completely differently. It must be "atoned for" BEFORE being sent off into the wilderness to "carry away" the sins of "Israel." It must be "atoned for", FIRST.

  (Why would Jesus be used to picture this second "goat," -- someone who needs no "atonement" procedure for himself?)

  So, it is reasoned, that this second goat, then pictures, the personage, as being a sinner, needing "atonement" for his sins, first, before being used in such a capacity, as a "sacrficial goat," -- able to carry other individuals "sins" away, able to "carry away," the sins of the nation of Israel into the "wilderness."

  Leviticus 16:10 says:

  "But the goat over which the lot came up for A-za-zel should be stood alive before Jehovah TO MAKE ATONEMENT FOR IT, so as to send it away for A-za-zel into the wilderness."

  The second "goat," is then, handled differently from the first goat. He must be "atoned for" first, before it can be used in this special "sacrificial" sense...to carry away others sins before Jehovah God.

  We see something similar when we examine the procedure for removal of "leprosy," from a household and how "cleanness" is pronounced upon this household before God.

  In the 14th chapter of Leviticus, again, 2 birds are sacrificed... one killed immediately, and the second, the "SCAPEBIRD" is said to have been "dipped" [Greek: "bapto" Septuagint Version] in the blood of the first bird who is first sacrificed. -- Leviticus 14:48-51

  Same principle. Jesus, completely perfect, sinless is pictured by the first "bird," -- whereas the second "bird," is a "sinner," completely dependent upon the sacrifice of the first bird, Jesus.

  And as such, he must be "washed clean," in the blood of the first bird, "baptized" in that blood... BEFORE being used as a sacrifice, a "living sacrifice," where he, the second bird, is "sent off into open field" or the wilderness, away from Israel ... taking the stain of leprosy, "national leprosy" of the people [Israel] with him. In this way, he makes atonement for the "house" or "nation," who has "leprosy" before God.

  Leviticus 14:53 says:

  "And he must send the LIVE BIRD away outside the city into the open field and must make ATONEMENT for the house; and it must be clean."

  You asked:

  Is he the promised "son of man," to come in our day?

  Same thought as mentioned above.

  "Two" Son(s) of man shall make an earthly appearance -- all sent by Jehovah. Jesus, the one for the First century, and another one, a mystery person in our day, to assist "Israel" of our day and times.

  So, then, Daniel 7:13, 14 and all of the events surrounding these verses, does not apply to Jesus... since these events have not occurred yet even now, but are FUTURE EVENTS, and which identify this person we speak of, to be the "son of man", of our times.

  Also, the mysterious, "rider of the white horse," who receives a "stephenos," or "crown," as a "victor," before Jehovah and rides off into "victory", a conqueror...JUST BEFORE the "Red Horse," arrives...the one of "WAR." -- Revelation 6th chapter.

  Incidentally, that's why no one will hear anything from him PERSONALLY, until JUST BEFORE THE "GREAT WAR." He "receives" the crown first, BEFORE he introduces himself to the world of mankind, as who he claims to be.

  MDS

  Edited by - MDS on 22 October 2000 11:21:6
• 

  MDS

  Frenchy:

  You seem to have given us much more information about ‘the report’ than anyone else. Previously no one wanted to say very much about it. Do your associates approve of your disclosure of this information?

  I think things are coming along fine here...I don't see a problem, so far.

  Is the writer of the report this person?
  If not, then is the writer of the report a prophet raised in our day to declare this person? (Like John the Baptist did for Jesus?)

  The writer of the "Report" claims to be the person mentioned in Isaiah 49:1-6, the one given this assignment direct from Jehovah God. He claims to be God's Special Representative.

  Who is this King of the North that is at such odds with the WTS.

  The identity of the "king of the North," the "small horn," the "666" -- mark of the beast," and the identity of the "7 Headed, 10 Horned Beast" along with other key points from Revelation/Daniel will be "revealed" as a special "piece" of information used to introduce himself to the world. He will present himself to the world, with this "special" information.

  The United States is now the supreme military power on this earth. In terms of armament, fire power, and control of sea, land, and air and to the extent that it can deliver its deadly firepower it is the greatest world power that has ever existed in the history of man. Yet you say that a “great "war" machine, who now reigns supreme earthwide.” What is this “great war machine”?

  Yes, the United States is all that. And that's what makes the prediction of their destruction as a military world power, all the more, UNBELIEVABLE. This point is mentioned at the very outset of the book, in the Preface of the "Report." It will be a noteworthy prediction...one that will bring no little "attention" to the one who has made this "prediction," beforehand.

  200 million will want to know more.

  The writer of the "Report," plans to step upon the world scene, with this information, just before the "War" starts, ... but just after the "crown" has been given Him from Jehovah God, seen in the "ride of the White Horse." So, at that time, just before the arrival of the "red, fiery colored horse," of total War, he plans to make this disclosure to the world, publicly. -- Rev. 6th chapter

  As for the WTS changing to accommodate political governments, this has already begun. It’s not too far fetched to extrapolate that it will continue. History teaches us that when religions get really big that there are splits. As a matter of fact, it happened early on in the history of JW’s. There are still ‘Bible Students’, adherents of Pastor Russell that are around to this day. There are many disenchanted JW’s today, good, honest, sincere people who have left the hypocrisy of the WTS and feeling a deep need to worship are reaching out. It is not inconceivable that at least some of these will eventually come together...Nor would I be surprised to know that right now forces are coming together at the world headquarters that will split the society in two.

  Yes, we see these things now developing.

  However, as early as 1991, the group which was formed to start the project of referencing materials for the "Report" saw this as part of Bible prophecy...based upon Zech. 11:14 and other related Bible references. We saw this coming in 1991.

  Later, in 1994, when the book (Volumes I & II) was first copyrighted, there were still no OUTWARD signs of a possible split, nor "break" in the brotherhood, at this time, among Jehovah's Witnesses nor at WTS Headquarters.

  The next year, we published the book (Volume I), in Nov. 1995 and placed it on the book shelf.

  Here is a quote from pages 56, and 57 of the "Report" Volume I on this subject.

  "...Yes, as mentioned earlier, Bible prophecy indicates that Jehovah's Witnesses as a nation will be decimated of population, (like the Jewish nation), with only a remnant left of the nation to continue true worship because of sin and transgression

  against Jehovah's Law! Because of such sin, a DISTINCT SEPARATION WILL OCCUR IN THE BROTHERHOOD of Jehovah's Witneses. The "stick of Judah" will separate from the "stick of Joseph," and yet, after a period discipline, the will indeed, come back together again. Please carefully consider the following scriptural citations and these points will become quite discernable: Isaiah 11:12, 13; Ezekiel 37:15-23; Hosea 1:11, Zechariah 11:14; Jeremiah 30:1-3."

  After the book (Volume I) was released, and placed on the book shelf, that is, around 6 months later, around the spring of 1996, the "AJWR" movement [Association of Jehovah Witnesses For Reform] made its appearance as a website, (the forerunner of H2O, who showed up in the fall of 1996) when things begin to visibly shake, as far as the organization was concerned. Some 5 to 6 months previous to the appearance of "AJWR," the Oct. 15th and Nov. 1st Watchtower magazines announced the "generation that lives to see the end" change and adjustment -- as well as the judging and separating of the "sheep and goats," adjustment. Shortly after this, rumblings began to be heard around the world, among Jehovah's Witnesses.

  Fourteen years you say. Well, I might very well not be around to see that anyway. This is all very interesting, I grant you. So what are you proponents of this prophet doing meanwhile?

  We are always, waging a "secret", private, battle against Satan, to survive, since he is quite aware of our presence, our acting as "guardians," and "custodians," of this message. So, this information makes us a real threat to him. It has brought about a very real threat to us, being possessors of this potentially lethal information that threatens to shake the house of Satan down. So, we are ace-enemy #1 to him.

  MDS

  Edited by - MDS on 22 October 2000 19:29:58
• 

  Frenchy

  MDS:
  There is still part of my question that was not answered:

  Yet you say that a “great "war" machine, who now reigns supreme earthwide.” What is this “great war machine”? -boldface mine

  Your statement is that this 'great war machine' is now reigning supreme earthwide. Where is it?

  -Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-
• 

  MDS

  Frenchy:

  I do not plan to "answer" every question you have.

  But I will review with you, the paragraph in question about this upcoming "war machine," that will utterly defeat the United States of America, in military battle.

  Here is what I said originally,

  "...WORLDWIDE PERSECUTION will come upon Jehovah's Witnesses, as a nation, quickly, "instantly," upon Jehovah's Witnesses, world-wide. At that time, Jehovah's Witnesses are now, earthwide "enemies," with the "king of the North," and his great "war" machine, WHO NOW REIGNS SUPREME EARTHWIDE.

  The United States of American will suffer a horrible defeat at his hands and will be reduced to a nation only interested in deeds of humanitarianism, at this time in human history."

  From the above statement, I was referring to the AFTERMATH of the "Great War," when that particular "king," the King of the North, and his military machinery, will hold total control over earth's affairs...when the nation of "Israel," Jehovah's Witnesses are then, sent "reeling," to the "wilderness," as the "woman." When they have become the "enemy" of the "king of the North" and are under persecution, on a worldwide scale. -- Rev. 12th

  I was not talking now...today. That event HAS NOT HAPPENED YET. The "King of the North," has not even made his appearance yet on the earthly scene...Its in the future, as the book, the "Report" clearly points out, and states plainly.

  MDS
• 

  Frenchy

  MDS:
  Okay, thanks for clearing that up.

  -Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-
• 

  Zep

  My heads spinning!
• 

  Frenchy

  Nothing wrong in allowing someone their illusion.

  -Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-
• 

  Seven

  Armageddon-a view of the valley.
  
  Mt.Tabor, where Jesus took Peter and John when Moses and Elijah appeared.
  Another bedtime story: http://www.zionministry.com/habakk.html

  Edited by - Simon on 24 October 2000 16:58:3
• 

  Seven

  I don't know what happened to my previous post. Maybe some other time.