If Jesus did not forgive a repenting satan, would He be a hypocrite?

by DavidChristopher 28 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • DavidChristopher

    I never said "don't express your opinions" I asked you to present them as opinions...not as facts. Isee alot of JW brain-washing still present. That is a tactic wore out by them, to brain wash you.

    Have the GB ever presented thier opinions as a opinion? Or do they present them as the word of God? I see some of you carrying on the tradition IMO.

    Does one of you satan experts have his phone number? I am in awe on how you can tell what he is thinking, and what he is always going to do. Do you have a line connected to my 5 year old too? can I get a heads up on why he pulled his pants down the other day and asked a little girl to look at his "wiener"? what was he thinking...where did he learn it, and will he ever do it again?

    perciate it.

  • unclebruce

    Dear David,

    1) I can never tell who exactly you're adressing when you post. It is as if you think we are all little cookie munsters living somewhere on your hard drive.

    2) Of course we all give our opinions here. That's what Jehovah's Witness Discussion is all about. Opinion is the default position here and just about everywhere else on the net. Unless otherwise stated we accept that what we are benefiting from here are the considered opinions of our fellow posters.


  • Queenvelvet

    I have to agree with DavidChristopher on this one. It personally believe it is pointless to sit around and debate a topic about the eternal judgement of Satan or anyone else for that matter. DavidChris was not being disrespectful in his post. He was just pointing out the fact that we are not experts in spirituality here. We can not take the bible and predict what would happen. No one can. If we say we can, it makes us no different than any other religion or cult out there.

    it's not like he is here to rain on everyone's parade or that it is not in good fun. He was just pointing out that taking scripture and making judgement based on that is what we USED to do. We don't want to be what we USED to be as witnesses do we? We don't want to be those judgemental assholes that we KNOW we all used to be. It is hard to erase those attitudes and even after almost 10 years, I still find myself judging people and actions all the time. It is habit because we have all been brainwashed to do it in society, but moreso as witnesses.

    Spirituality and the modern day justice system are two completely different stories, so they cannot be compared. We can pass "judgement" and punish on someone who has committed a crime and try and get "justice", whatever that is. Passing judgement on what is going to happen on a person or spirit (whatever's) eternal soul based on what we THINK we know is ridiculous. Because in the end, we don't know anything. We won't know until we die, or maybe never.

    I think this topic is hilarious personally. But I do see DavidChris' point here. I think everyone needs to lighten up a bit and take what he says with a grain of salt and maybe learn something from what he says, because his post is filled with what is a very good example of how a nice people should be acting. Just my opinion though as well.

  • unclebruce

    Yeah lighten up people!

    Jehovah: Hey Satan did you notice my servant mbd, ain't he a beaudy?

    Satan: Bet ya 5/1 he'll lose it if you zap 's cat.


  • trevor


    I sympathise with you because I understand how irritating the imperfect people on this forum can be to perfect people like us who have all the correct answers.

    We both suffer the frustration of knowing that we can never receive forgiveness if we do wrong because we are perfect.

    Tread carefully though, because the devil and his demons were also created perfect and they screwed up big time.

  • sinis
    Chapter 12

    1 Before these things Enoch was hidden, and no one of the children of men knew where he was
    2 hidden, and where he abode, and what had become of him. And his activities had to do with the Watchers, and his days were with the holy ones.
    3 And I Enoch was blessing the Lord of majesty and the King of the ages, and lo! the Watchers
    4called me -Enoch the scribe- and said to me: 'Enoch, thou scribe of righteousness, go, declare to the Watchers of the heaven who have left the high heaven, the holy eternal place, and have defiled themselves with women, and have done as the children of earth do, and have taken unto themselves
    5wives: "Ye have wrought great destruction on the earth: And ye shall have no peace nor forgiveness
    6 of sin: and inasmuch as they delight themselves in their children, The murder of their beloved ones shall they see, and over the destruction of their children shall they lament, and shall make supplication unto eternity, but mercy and peace shall ye not attain."
    Chapter 13

    1 And Enoch went and said: Azazel, thou shalt have no peace: a severe sentence has gone forth
    2 against thee to put thee in bonds: And thou shalt not have toleration nor request granted to thee, because of the unrighteousness which thou hast taught, and because of all the works of godlessness
    3 and unrighteousness and sin which thou hast shown to men. Then I went and spoke to them all
    4 together, and they were all afraid, and fear and trembling seized them. And they besought me to draw up a petition for them that they might find forgiveness, and to read their petition in the presence
    5 of the Lord of heaven. For from thenceforward they could not speak (with Him) nor lift up their
    6 eyes to heaven for shame of their sins for which they had been condemned. Then I wrote out their petition, and the prayer in regard to their spirits and their deeds individually and in regard to their
    7 requests that they should have forgiveness and length. And I went off and sat down at the waters of Dan, in the land of Dan, to the south of the west of Hermon: I read their petition till I fell
    8 asleep. And behold a dream came to me, and visions fell down upon me, and I saw visions of chastisement, and a voice came bidding (me) I to tell it to the sons of heaven, and reprimand them.
    9 And when I awaked, I came unto them, and they were all sitting gathered together, weeping in
    10 Abelsjail, which is between Lebanon and Seneser, with their faces covered. And I recounted before them all the visions which I had seen in sleep, and I began to speak the words of righteousness, and to reprimand the heavenly Watchers.

    Chapter 14

    1 The book of the words of righteousness, and of the reprimand of the eternal Watchers in accordance
    2 with the command of the Holy Great One in that vision. I saw in my sleep what I will now say with a tongue of flesh and with the breath of my mouth: which the Great One has given to men to
    3 converse therewith and understand with the heart. As He has created and given to man the power of understanding the word of wisdom, so hath He created me also and given me the power of reprimanding
    4 the Watchers, the children of heaven. I wrote out your petition, and in my vision it appeared thus, that your petition will not be granted unto you throughout all the days of eternity, and that judgement
    5 has been finally passed upon you: yea (your petition) will not be granted unto you. And from henceforth you shall not ascend into heaven unto all eternity, and in bonds of the earth the decree
    6 has gone forth to bind you for all the days of the world. And (that) previously you shall have seen the destruction of your beloved sons and ye shall have no pleasure in them, but they shall fall before
    7 you by the sword. And your petition on their behalf shall not be granted, nor yet on your own: even though you weep and pray and speak all the words contained in the writing which I have
    8 written. And the vision was shown to me thus: Behold, in the vision clouds invited me and a mist summoned me, and the course of the stars and the lightnings sped and hastened me, and the winds in
    9 the vision caused me to fly and lifted me upward, and bore me into heaven. And I went in till I drew nigh to a wall which is built of crystals and surrounded by tongues of fire: and it began to affright
    10 me. And I went into the tongues of fire and drew nigh to a large house which was built of crystals: and the walls of the house were like a tesselated floor (made) of crystals, and its groundwork was
    11 of crystal. Its ceiling was like the path of the stars and the lightnings, and between them were
    12 fiery cherubim, and their heaven was (clear as) water. A flaming fire surrounded the walls, and its
    13 portals blazed with fire. And I entered into that house, and it was hot as fire and cold as ice: there
    14 were no delights of life therein: fear covered me, and trembling got hold upon me. And as I quaked
    15 and trembled, I fell upon my face. And I beheld a vision, And lo! there was a second house, greater
    16 than the former, and the entire portal stood open before me, and it was built of flames of fire. And in every respect it so excelled in splendour and magnificence and extent that I cannot describe to
    17 you its splendour and its extent. And its floor was of fire, and above it were lightnings and the path
    18of the stars, and its ceiling also was flaming fire. And I looked and saw therein a lofty throne: its appearance was as crystal, and the wheels thereof as the shining sun, and there was the vision of
    19 cherubim. And from underneath the throne came streams of flaming fire so that I could not look
    20 thereon. And the Great Glory sat thereon, and His raiment shone more brightly than the sun and
    21 was whiter than any snow. None of the angels could enter and could behold His face by reason
    22 of the magnificence and glory and no flesh could behold Him. The flaming fire was round about Him, and a great fire stood before Him, and none around could draw nigh Him: ten thousand times
    23 ten thousand (stood) before Him, yet He needed no counselor. And the most holy ones who were
    24 nigh to Him did not leave by night nor depart from Him. And until then I had been prostrate on my face, trembling: and the Lord called me with His own mouth, and said to me: ' Come hither,
    25 Enoch, and hear my word.' And one of the holy ones came to me and waked me, and He made me rise up and approach the door: and I bowed my face downwards.

    Chapter 15

    1 And He answered and said to me, and I heard His voice: 'Fear not, Enoch, thou righteous
    2 man and scribe of righteousness: approach hither and hear my voice. And go, say to the Watchers of heaven, who have sent thee to intercede for them: "You should intercede" for men, and not men
    3 for you: Wherefore have ye left the high, holy, and eternal heaven, and lain with women, and defiled yourselves with the daughters of men and taken to yourselves wives, and done like the children
    4 of earth, and begotten giants (as your) sons? And though ye were holy, spiritual, living the eternal life, you have defiled yourselves with the blood of women, and have begotten (children) with the blood of flesh, and, as the children of men, have lusted after flesh and blood as those also do who die
    5 and perish. Therefore have I given them wives also that they might impregnate them, and beget
    6 children by them, that thus nothing might be wanting to them on earth. But you were formerly
    7 spiritual, living the eternal life, and immortal for all generations of the world. And therefore I have not appointed wives for you; for as for the spiritual ones of the heaven, in heaven is their dwelling.
    8 And now, the giants, who are produced from the spirits and flesh, shall be called evil spirits upon
    9 the earth, and on the earth shall be their dwelling. Evil spirits have proceeded from their bodies; because they are born from men and from the holy Watchers is their beginning and primal origin;
    10 they shall be evil spirits on earth, and evil spirits shall they be called. [As for the spirits of heaven, in heaven shall be their dwelling, but as for the spirits of the earth which were born upon the earth, on the earth shall be their dwelling.]
    11 And the spirits of the giants afflict, oppress, destroy, attack, do battle, and work destruction on the earth, and cause trouble: they take no food, but nevertheless
    12 hunger and thirst, and cause offences. And these spirits shall rise up against the children of men and against the women, because they have proceeded from them.

    Chapter 16

    1 From the days of the slaughter and destruction and death of the giants, from the souls of whose flesh the spirits, having gone forth, shall destroy without incurring judgement -thus shall they destroy until the day of the consummation, the great judgement in which the age shall be
    2 consummated, over the Watchers and the godless, yea, shall be wholly consummated." And now as to the Watchers who have sent thee to intercede for them, who had been aforetime in heaven, say to them:
    3 "You have been in heaven, but all the mysteries had not yet been revealed to you, and you knew worthless ones, and these in the hardness of your hearts you have made known to the women, and through these mysteries women and men work much evil on earth."
    4 Say to them therefore: " You have no peace."'

  • DavidChristopher
  • DavidChristopher

    can a question or stated opinion be a lie?

    I have seen that opinions presented as facts can be. IMO

    Any thoughts?

  • lola28
    you guys sure know alot about satan. ; Do you know him? ; How do you know his intentions?&nbsp

    Yup, Satan is my BFF we hang out every Thursday and he tells me all his plans.


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