Mankind's sufferings who's to blame? (page 2)

kid-A

For unbelievers who refuse to admit that all humans are sinful by nature because of our inheritance this is a concept that they will never grasp unless they turn to the Savior in genuine repentance.

I wonder Honesty and greendawn, how do you define "sin"? You know, what is perceived as "sin" in tennesee may be considered "virtue" in some african tribes or other cultures. Sin is defined by culture and societal and historical context, it has NO MEANING in and of itself. That "semantic" reality, in and of itself causes your template of perception and morality to come crashing down into meaninglessness. Now, what is a saviour? YOUR SAVIOUR? Thats great for you, but there are billions of OTHER human beings on this planet that would consider mohammed or buddha, or Krishna THEIR saviour, so I suppose in your conception of reality, these other billions of human beings will all be condemned to hell for not adhering to your conception of reality? Your conception of morality? Can you not see how utterly absurd and ridiculous this mode of thinking is?

For the record, I dont consider you a crackpot, just a completely deluded individual who has willingly shut off his mind to alternative interpretations of the world around him, and that is truly a sad state of affairs. 100 years from now, we will BOTH be rotting in the ground, equally dead, neither in heaven nor in hell. The difference is, I dont intend to waste my life living a delusional fantasy about some hypothetical wonderland after my existence ends. I will enjoy my life in the here and now, and accept that life is full of suffering, always has been and always will be until the sun burns out of the sky......

unclebruce

How did you come up with the idea of "meaning" then? If there is no meaning to anything... how did the concepts of "meaning" and "no meaning" come about? If there was no meaning, why would humans prefer to not fathom a world without it? Where did they get the idea from?

g'day kristianne,

Sorry you got overlooked. Yours is an interesting query. Its something that's been explored in depth by people like Einsein and Jung and more recently Adelaide physicist Paul Davies.

You'd be much easier to notice if you directed your enquiry to a specific person or used the quotation thingamy whatsit above.

happy posting, unc

gumby

The difference is, I dont intend to waste my life living a delusional fantasy about some hypothetical wonderland after my existence ends

I don't think it is a wasted life for those that are really happy because they believe in a future life. If it never happens.....THEY were happy till they died. Is that a bad thing?

If their particular type of faith brings them or others no harm, I see no problem. The hard part is.....so many faiths DO indeed bring harm to themselves or others. If that can be avoided, let them do what brings them happiness. Not all who lose their faith or religion become happier, rather some are less happy.

Gumby

stillajwexelder

God - he made Satan - and if he is as powerful as we are led to believe he can stop the suffering anytime

tetrapod.sapien

hi krystyann, i think your question was directed at me.

How did you come up with the idea of "meaning" then?

i didn't. the "idea" of meaning is born partly from our pattern seekinng minds (originally used by our ancestors in survival to make up for underdeveloped physical abilities as per our animal cousins), and any accompanying meaning that is handed down to us from other members of our species, or that we make up along the way.

If there is no meaning to anything... how did the concepts of "meaning" and "no meaning" come about?

the same way that anything that doesn't exist, but that we can imagine, comes about. elves don't exist, but they came about via our imaginations. the same argument can be made for god. doesn't exist, but we made him up to sooth ourselves from a baffling existence. the same can be said for a "better world". we can imagine it, but that doesn't mean it exists. just because we can imagine meaning, doesn't actually indicate that meaning really exists outside of ourselves, individually. if you find a meaning that several million of your other family members subscribe to, then that is fine. but a single meaning found over many people does not make it any more meaningful than if only held by a single person. truth does not lie in numbers (as we know from being witnoids), and neither does meaning. in short, the concept of meaning came about because we wanted it to exist for us, not the other way around. it's a construct of ourselves, for all we can tell. and in that sense, the playing field is so leveled by relativity, that it is simpler to say there is no meaning. and i say that suffering doesn't exist, because suffering requires meaning to exist. and if there is none, outside of ourselves, then suffering too is relative to the individual, though technically we react the same to different stimuli, as humans, because we share the same dna.

If there was no meaning, why would humans prefer to not fathom a world without it?

because it makes us feel better? because without it, we are what we fear the most? and the universe is what we fear the most? let me put it this way. let yourself for a moment imagine that there is absolutely no outside/external meaning to existence, and that the universe is completely pointless. AH AH AH!! uh, just let yourself go there for a moment. now: are you happier in this place? does it make you feel better to know you are completely alone, and that all you go through in your life is completely for NOTHING? i think it's safe to say, in the general sense, that the answers are no. and that is why we make up meaning. do you think that our ancestors would care to try so hard at building a society that infuses some concrete meaning into our lives, if there really was some external universal meaning somewhere? no, i believe. and that's why our world, with all the religions, and all the blood and guts and kill or be killed and vile and horrid things exist. the only meaning we have, doesn't mean a dang thing, truly, to the guy next to you. you both just have the same needs and desires and fears, is all.

unc, LOL, it's the life of a martyr, no doubt, hehe... ;) cheers mate, TS

Carmel

Uncle, sad to say but you are beginning to sound much like a self-righteous fundy! Eveyone else is decieved but you? Awh, to be so exhalted!

Ga day mate!

cavedweller

bem

What ?Ok I get the god not existing part but elves don't exist, say it isn't so

the same way that anything that doesn't exist, but that we can imagine, comes about. elves don't exist, but they came about via our imaginations. the same argument can be made for god. doesn't exist, but we made him up to sooth ourselves from a baffling existence.

As for the suffering and blaming why do we have the need to blame?

SWALKER

I vote we blame it all on BUSH!!!

Swalker

unclebruce

Uncle, sad to say but you are beginning to sound much like a self-righteous fundy! Eveyone else is decieved but you? Awh, to be so exhalted!
Ga day mate! cavedweller

G'day Eligah, I know that's how I seem to you but hasn't that always been the case. Yes, I'm one cocky self confident little bugger but I never preach. I have no answers, no barrow to push. I recommend nothing but people find their own way and enjoy the wonders of the journey. I am completely deluded by life too of course. If it weren't for that I wouldn't be building a house stone by stone. I know these forums aren't easy places to bare ones soul (let alone ones theism) but I do try to help anyone who asks (see the references I gave the genuine christian girl above). I shouldn't let closed minded fundy preaches get up my goat...it must be I weren't bought up right Mention certain 'trigger words" and my animal brain pushes the rational aside. Sorry that my derisive laughing disturbs you bro. I'll go work on my mildness, loving kindness , self control .. how did i go on gestures? longwhining bruce AND ANOTHER THING! - (((((((((((((((((((it's been a long time catching up))))))))))))))))))

IMustBreakAway

"There ain't no answer, there ain't ever been an answer, and there ain't ganna be an answer. That's the answer."

Seen on a gravestone, "Life's a joke and all things show it, i thought so once but now i know it."

Mankind's sufferings who's to blame?

Share this