Bible-Believing and the End Times

by jgnat 41 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Auld Soul and Star Moore, I'm starting a new thread on this topic so we don't entangle Black Swan's excellent thread. Like Auld Soul, I am also very interested in how a bible-believer comes to the conclusion that we are living in the end times NOW. I'm not questioning the bible here, but the OBSERVATIONS that make a modern reader come to this conclusion.

    And secondary to that, like Auld Soul, I would like to understand how BELIEVING THE END TIMES ARE IMMINENT change a Christian's behavior, if at all.

    Star Moore:

    Some scriptures in my mind for right now in history.

    1. NWT Ez. 9:4 ......"And you must put a mark on the forheads of the men that are sighing and groaning over all the detestable things that are being done in the midst of it."

    2. NWT Mic. 4:3..." .....And they will have to beat their swords int plowshares and their spears into pruning shears........and they will learn war no more."

    3. NWT Rev. 20:4 ".....Yes, I saw the souls of those executed with the ax for the witness they bore to Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had worshiped neither the wild beast nor it's image and who had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand and they came to life......"

    Black Swan....it's seem important now to understand these things..

    Auld Soul:

    I am curious why you believe those verses are "important now" to understand.

    Star Moore:

    Auld Soul...I think the points I made about the "Mark of the Beast" and "Beating Swords to Plowshares" "and Groaning and Sighing over the detestable things" is pertinent now because we are at the "time of the end". And these are "time of the end" prophesies not really applicable neccessarily before.

    Jgnat:

    I'll beat Auld Soul to the next burning question, Star Moore. How do you know we are at "the time of the end"?

    Star Moore:

    Hello there...JGNAT... I think we are in the end because of prophesies in Rev., Dan., Ezek. and others... I think the prophesies are all unfolding. Not according to the WT's definition, not according to the 1914 thang..but according to the %$#%#[email protected]% we have for a president. And other things too. Call me dumb but even though I have completely D'A'd from the WT, I still believe in the bible and God..and Jesus...

    Auld Soul:

    For my part, you would need to get a lot more specific before I could share your confidence that we are in the end of times.

    Which prophecies in Daniel do you think apply to us, more than 2600 years later? Which of Ezekiel's prophecies? Did they also apply to earlier time periods, or have you found something uniquely applicable to right now? I am very curious as to what you have found, but I admit to some skepticism. I am very cautious about buying another end of times tale.

    However, in the final analysis I can't figure out what a Christian (or anyone on any other path) would change if it was the end of times. In other words, what difference would it make if these are the end times?

  • gumby
    gumby

    You'll be hardpressed to find a true bible believer that DOESN'T believe we are in the last days. Go back to the inquisitions and see how many thought the same thing......or any other time in history since the 1st century.

    Gumby

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Count me as one, Gumby. I guess we could blame 2 Peter 3, where each generation of believers assumes this verse applies to their time.

    2 I want you to recall the words spoken in the past by the holy prophets and the command given by our Lord and Savior through your apostles.

    3 First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4 They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation

    I'd count the worst time in human history as the time of the Black Death, 1348-50.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/society_culture/welfare/black_impact_01.shtml

  • greendawn
    greendawn

    My opinion is that we can't say that we are near the end of the times of the nations during which satan has a predominent influence. Even if that time is near we can't tell at present and until we observe some really unusual signs.

    Didn't Paul say that at one time the Jews were to be restored to Grace and accept Christ? Something that would profit the nations more than their fall from grace. That hasn't occured.

    As for the final days some people claim that they cover the whole period from the first to the second coming of Christ, ie for 2000 year we live in the final days.

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    I'm afraid my views are modified Preterist.

    If there's a modern day interpretation to be had, I think it's an allegorical allusion to the battle that occurs within the believer. That being the case my "last days" began a few years ago, and I'm now enjoying the heavenly temple as we speak.

    Roll me up another, will ya Gumby ole chum

  • gumby
    gumby
    Roll me up another, will ya Gumby ole chum

    I done rolled it little brother. Now I'm headin out to smoke it and goin to yard sales and find me a demonised #1 golf driver for $5 bucks if I can.....................before then end comes

    Gumby

  • BlackSwan of Memphis
    BlackSwan of Memphis

    I with jgnat on this. I think there have been times in history, dark ages included, that have been so much worse.

    meagan

  • greendawn
    greendawn

    No doubt there have been worse times, in fact the 20th century was one of the best in history when it comes to wars and famines despite what the JWs claim. I think the 14th century was the worst for wars also considering the smaller populations of the time.

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Very interesting interpretation, Little Toe.

    an allegorical allusion to the battle that occurs within the believer.

    You might just catapult me in to another deep-thinking funk on that one.

  • BlackSwan of Memphis
    BlackSwan of Memphis

    Then there was the little ice age that resulted in, I believe, millions of deaths due to crop failure and political problems.

    meagan

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