by tmo1965 23 Replies latest watchtower bible
Do you think it would have had the right effect if someone showed you scriptures and previous WT literature that shows, for instance the failed predictions?
I'm curious about this, because I have had several witnesses come to my house and I pretended that I was interested in a "Bible" study so that I could bring up scriptures that showed their error. I wonder if that type of thing would have any effect.
I really never had anyone work on me until about 1995 (I think), when my boss at that time started going on and on about how we were a cult and all it was about was money. I was dumb so I said "well, our contributions are voluntary". About that time a WT came out and the cover was something like "Are JW's a cult?". Thinking "Oh what timely information" I gave him a copy. He took it and dropped it right into the trash. He tried to get me to read CoC and I told him "No way!"
He then had the hospital's chaplain, who is a really nice guy, go to work on me. I blew him off too. I went up to him a few months ago and said "Hey Don, guess what! I was in a cult." He laughed and said "Gee, don't you wish someone had tried to tell you that?"
Welcome tmo1965 - 2!
It may help to pretend to be interested, but you may find that they bring in the 'heavies' after a few studies to suss you out. If they feel that they are not 'progressing' in their study with you and their faith is being compromised, they may ditch you.
It would be interesting to try though. Let us know what happens!
My mother and father tried to warn me, but they just didn't have any concrete information to back themselves up. Plus, being already entrenched in the " look out for opposition....this means it is the truth" mindset they groom you into early on in the study pretty much closed my mind to anything they had to say about it at the time.
I remember being in a householders home one day while out getting serviced...I mean, in service, and he gently tried to help me connect the dots to what the JW religion was really al about and it's origins. When I went to one of the elders leading the group and related to him some of the questions the guy was asking me and asking for his help, he flat out refused to go and talk him offering no reason why.
That was one of the things that raised my eyebrow.
Not really.
In my youth, our family went to church, a Presbyterian church, that I think my parents chose because many bigwigs in town went there...but we didn't really discuss spirituality, God or religion much. It was as if talking about these things was in bad taste.
It wasn't until I started studying with JWs that it came out that my father's grandfather, grandmother and two aunts had all been witnesses until death. My grandfather somehow avoided becoming a dub because he left the farm in Ohio at the age of 16 and went to Chicago to seek his fortune.
My great grandfather went through three wives in his time...and had kids by them all. My grandfather and his sisters were the first batch. When their mother died, Great Grampy just got himself another wife to take care of the youngin's he had, and proceeded to father himself some more kids on wife #2. I don't get the impression he paid much attention to any of his children. My grandfather remembers going to some big witnoid wing ding as a kid (prolly one of those week-long conventions) and playing in a big dirt pile all day. Guess the "inculcating" your kids thing wasn't in vogue in those heady days of Russell and Rutherford. As we know, the end was coming very, very soon.
My parents made some half-hearted attempts at warning me off witnesses, but their comments were more along the lines of, "Wasn't what we raised you with good enough?", "You think too much", or "Will you still come to Christmas dinner?" Not the kind of questions/commentary that caused me to want to re-examine what I was getting into. In fact, it reinforced my choice to study because I was fed up with this kind of surface, do-what-we-tell-you-and-don't-question crap from them. Interesting that the WTS turned out to same sort of operation once I got past the initial bombardment of new (to me) information.
My grandmother was terribly opposed, but she also had no compelling arguments to sway me. Her disgust with JWs seemed to be based on the fact that she didn't get along with her JW sister-in-laws when they were alive and because, when they died (childless), they gave everything to Brooklyn.
My husband made a few comments but his concern, as an Army officer, was based on the fact that JWs are anti-military. Besides we were divorcing and I thought he was a clueless jackass. Sure wasn't going to listen to him!
Actually, it looks like nobody really gave a shit what I was getting myself (and my sons) into as long as it didn't rock the boat too much. Oh well, I doubt I would have listened anyway. I'm pretty stubborn sometimes.
It may help to pretend to be interested, but you may find that they bring in the 'heavies' after a few studies to suss you out. If they feel that they are not 'progressing' in their study with you and their faith is being compromised, they may ditch you.It would be interesting to try though. Let us know what happens!
Actually, I've tried it twice and it went down pretty much like you said.
A brief background on myself to help you understand why I would even bother. I've never been a JW. I knew about them all of my life, but I thought they were just another denomination, like all the others. I consider myself a devout Christian. I'm a big Prince fan and have been a member of a few of his fan webpages. Well Prince has become a JW. As a result there are dozens of JWs on the message boards spreading their version of the gospel. At first, I felt that something was off, but I couldn't put my finger on it. I started doing research on the JWs and found out about their past and their wacky teachings. As a Christian, I felt an obligation to "inform" this bunch about the errors in their doctrine. I was shocked to find that with all kinds of concrete proof of changed wording in their NWT that have no basis in the Greek and Hebrew, proof that 607 / 1914 is junk, etc. that they still refused to see that the WTS is a modern day false prophet. They defend the society to no end. I just don't understand that level of mind control. So I try to tell any JW that I come into contact with the truth.
The 1st group came to my house to deliver a NWT that I had requested over the phone about 6 months earlier. They seemed to be in a hurry to drop the book and leave, but of course I invited them in and told them that I had been talking to some JWs on the internet and I wanted the NWT to follow along with their discussions (which was a lie. I wanted to compare the NWT to a legitimate translation so I could find where they had changed stuff.) Anyway, I started to tell them that I didn't understand some of their teachings based on what I've read in the Bible. (btw. when they came by it was around Christmas time and my house and yard were fully decorated ) I forgot what subject we started on but they had me all over the place as far as Bible subjects. The 1st 2 was an elder's wife and a fairly new one. After all the questions I asked and scriptures I showed them, the next visit was the elder's wife and a 15 year "veteran" (:lol) To make a long story short, they came by at least 3 or 4 times and I wasn't budging. On the last "Bible study" as they were standing up to leave, the elder's wife told me that I would regret having rejected the "truth". I told her that I could say the same the for her. She then said, well that's fair. They left and I never heard from them again.
The 2nd group was 2 men. I started to question them about the Trinity. They didn't want to spend time that day and one of them sent his wife and another younger girl (early 20's or late teens). I started asking questions about scriptures that support the Trinity and they did not have any answers, of course. The younger girl diligently took notes of all my questions. (I hope she actually researched them for herself.) I could tell the younger girl was less experienced in the field because as I explained my position on the Trinity with scriptures, she ask me real snooty like "Are you trying to teach us?" (:lol) Of course they didn't bring her back the next time. The older woman brought her husband to dominate me. He hardly let me get a word in edge wise. Well series ended after about 3 visits. The woman tried to return a couple of times, but my mother, who was watching my kids while I ran errands, was there when they returned both times (oddly) and she has a real dislike for the JWs because of a friend of her's who got DF'd years ago. She told them that they were a cult the 1st time, The next time she told them that I didn't live there anymore and they never came back.
Yeah, I had one person try to talk me out of joining the cult. I really wish she had presented better reasons than the one she gave me. I remember her declaring emphatically, "Don't join them! They're BAD!!! They read BOOKS!!!"
W
Oh my gosh!!!!!!!!!!!! TMO!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's Purpluvr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Welcome!!!
In retrospect, though I was fairly well sheltered growing up as a Witness, with all the time I spent out in field service I did come across certain people who tried to explain different things to me on numerous occasions. Of course, at the time I felt sad for them that they had been deceived by the Devil or were just misinformed.
One man gave me "apostate literature" and the elder who was with me at the door later angrily demanded that I throw it into the nearest trash can we could find after we got into the service car...and I remember what stuck in my mind most about that was the elder's angry reaction which seemed unreasonable to me.
A man I tried to Witness to at a gas station once told me something to effect of, "Watchtower, eh? Oh, yeah, they're a huge corporation, own stocks and everything. Running a big business up there in Brooklyn. It's all about the money." When I tried to explain to him about the voluntary work and donations, he just kind of felt sorry for me and I remember feeling kind of angry that HE would feel sorry for ME...lol.
At least a couple of times another Christian eager to "save" me (in their own way) tried to explain that the Watchtower had deceived me and wanted me to see their truth about Jesus...but of course that only ended with both of us being frustrated because I was adept at refuting all doctrinal arguments.
And I also remember some apostataprotesters outside of a district convention when I was a small boy, my brother actually ended up briefly on the TV news that night with a reporter trying to ask him what he thought of the protesters but he gave no comment and quickly went back inside the convention hall in fear. I'll never forget the atmosphere among the Witnesses of fear and contempt for the apostates...no wonder I feared them so much later in life, I had many lessons along the way.
It kind of reminds me in the film, the Truman Show...in fact that was one of the greatest influences that caused me to subconsciously begin to question my reality. I remember the guy who came down in a parachute with a sign, "YOU'RE ON TV!" or something like that. And the guy who popped out of the birthday box, "TRUMAN, IT'S TELEVISION!" Or the girl who got a few brief moments to try to explain to him the fraud that was his world...and the way those words even though he could not understand them always stayed with him though he went on to live his dull life. After I became somewhat obsessed with that movie, I started to suspect that there was something suspicious about my little world.
Never by other JWs, but sometimes at the doors. I met a Russellite once who mentioned the 1925 thing, I had no idea what he was talking about, asked some Witnesses who said it was nothing and that was the end of that.
I was standing at a door once Witnessing and an apostate was driving past. They stopped their car and ran up to me to try the talk to me. Then the householder opened the door. I apologised to the householder and took off.
I eventually just could feel that things weren't right, that is what made me go searching.
A few years ago I was telling a friend some of my concerns. We are both out now, and she said the other day that when I was talking to her she was thinking in her mind "whatever" and it had no effect on her at all. Nothing will sink in until a person has that crisis of conscience to want to see the truth.
