Babilonian captivity VS Jerusalem destruction

by Shazard 35 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Kenneson

    "Celebrated WT scholars?" They remain anonymous; no way to check their credentials. Unknowns, celebrated by whom?

  • reaper

    Yes and CELEBRATED BY WHOM? I don't think any serious scholars take them seriously at all. The problem when we were in the 'deception' we were brainwashed into thinking that those people really were experts.

    But when I was on my first 2 week Elders training school way back in 1976, our instructor told us that contrary to 'popular' belief within the organisation, the Governing Body which included Fred Franz in those days, DID NOT CONSULT some kind of ORACLE for Divine Revelation. So where did it all come from? The instructor told us that the Worldwide Brotherhood keep writing in about various understandings, and if enough write in about the same thing, they deem it as being a sign of Jehovah's 'nudging' of the Governing Body into the direction of the magority.

    He also said that the COs report back ' weaknesses' in Congregations and then they write an article in the WT about it, and all the members think it is Food at the proper time. Its all a great big sham.

    I always had a different feeling about the Society after that. And when Elders or others would say, Oh what a wonderful Watchtower that was, I would think what on earth are they on about?

    The WTs were all a load of comlex sounding drivel, that hardly anyone would dare to question it, as it was from the 'elite faithful and discreet slave class'

    Nothing was ever from Jesus our King, it was always the F&DS, who was supposed to be appointed by the Master himself. And that is how I know it IS NOT FROM OUR GOD BUT FROM THE god OF THIS WORLD.

  • ellderwho
    scholar: History shows that 1914 was the most significant date of world events and that is because of the events that happened both in the heavens and the earth. We can all be very grateful to those humble and wise Bible Students who properly discerned matters.

    Hey genius, what about the embrassing fact that the "Gentiles" where still trampling Jerusalem past 1914. Anyway show us your neo-Babylonian kings list, ya know the one that streeeeeeeeeeeeetches out one of your kings rule 20 years.

  • Jeffro
    Pages 94-97 simply give the explanation of the Daniel's interpretation of the tree dream in accordance with Daniel 12:4.

    Daniel 12:4 relates to chapters 10 to 12 and has absolutely nothing to do with chapter 4.

    The consistent use of the Greek words and the correct literal rendering into English for Like 21:24 shows that you have not understood the Greek and haver not done your parsing requested by me.

    "haver"? "Like 21:24"? It seems you haven't even understood the English. Firstly, I don't have do anything you request. Secondly, the original text shows a progression of events and simply doesn't allow for your proposed rendering, particularly in view of the words used.

    Again the context of that relevant chapter in Ezeliel applies to Judah with maybe representatives from Israel thrown into boot.

    Whether you apply Ezekiel's words to Israel, or to Judah, you are wrong either way, 'scholar', because your superstitious numerology-based application is irreconcilably flawed.

    History shows that 1914 was the most significant date of world events and that is because of the events that happened both in the heavens and the earth. We can all be very grateful to those humble and wise Bible Students who properly discerned matters.

    History has shown nothing that would indicate that anything happened in heaven in 1914. Further, nothing significant happened on earth at the supposed October fulfilment either. You like to leave out that October bit don't you. Humble? If they were truly humble, they would have admitted they were wrong by now.

    Jeremiah indicates that the Return would occur after or when the seventy years are fulfilled and only then. In chapter 25 he clearly states that the seventy years was of a period of exile to Babylon, servitude to Babylon and the complete desolation of the land of Judah. Also, he says that during these events that the nations as well woud be brought into servitude and that such nations would also experience similar devastation toJudah because of their being brought to account when the seventy years were fulfilled upon Judah.

    Jeremiah indicates that the return would occur after (not when) the seventy years are fulfilled, but not in chapter 25. He also indicates that the king of Babylon would be called to account after the 70 years are fulfilled, and that is the limiting factor. Jeremiah does not mention an exile to Babylon in chapter 25 at all. Jeremiah didn't say that the nations "as well" would be brought into servitude. All of the surrounding nations collectively (including Judah, not secondary to it) are the primary focus of verses 8 to 11; there is no mention of exile, only of "nations" serving Babylon.

    Celebrated WT scholars, the Bible and Josephus indicates that Tyre's seventy years was only one of servitude to Babylon and was not identical to the seventy years of Jeremiah. Such an understanding of Jeremiah's seventy years is confirmed by Zechariah who used this period as an historic reminder of their sad experience in Babylon. Josephus clearly confirms our interpretation of this matter because he states that a period of seventy years from the Fall to the Return was foretold by Jeremiah.

    The "seventy years of Jeremiah", according to chapter 25, were expressly of servitude to Babylon, which makes them the same 70 years as those for Tyre. Applying the 70 years referred to by Zechariah to this period makes his references meaningless and illogical. It doesn't matter how many times you repeat yourself. You are still wrong.

    The contrast between your dead chronology as lifeless and our chronology as living shows the difference when the Bible is rejected for the opinions and theories of men who favour higher criticism over the plain and simple statements of God's Word.

    It is you who rejects plain and simple statements. The simplest most definitive statements in the bible regarding the 70 years are "these nations will have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years," and "when seventy years have been fulfilled I shall call to account against the king of Babylon and against that nation". Now, I know that you will want to rant again about how the fulfilment on Babylon was a gradual thing that eventuated in its complete destruction, but that doesn't alter the starting point of that judgement which is clearly indicated by Daniel, so your ranting is unnecessary and I don't want to hear it.

    Whether you reply now or later or whether you think you have made a victory is irrelevant to me.

    I don't really consider proving you wrong as a 'victory' because I do not consider you an able rival.

  • ellderwho
    very grateful to those humble and wise Bible Students who properly discerned matters.

    Does this apply to the reason beth-sarim was built? Discerned matters, like what?

  • reaper

    There is nothing like an Ostrich who sticks his head in the sand when the game is up. Scholar (what a joke) Scholar of what? All he does is parrots WT false calculatations, pretty much like a GUY polishing the brass plaque on the Titanic.

    He makes stupid statements such as 1914 was the most significant year in world events. The most important dates in world events, were the birth of Jesus Christ and his death and resurrection in 33AD, something the WT hardly ever talks about.

    The WT are far more interested in dates than Jesus BIRTH, DEATH & RESURRECTION. They NEVER talk about the Grace of God, or the precious BLOOD of Jesus. Its all THE KINGDOM, or NEW WORLD ORDER (Illuminatii talk) or a new world of a 1000 years, very similar to Hitlers boast.

    How on earth can the WT PROVE that the Heavens were cleansed on Satan & His Demons in 1914?

    They obviously CANNOT prove it Biblically, because Satan had control of the Earth from mankinds fall. Once Adam rejected Gods authority, he gave permission to satan to control this Earth. That is why Satan IS the ruler of this world as the Bible tells us.

    So nothing the WT state about end times starting in 1914 has any relevance to Gods plan of salvation. Again Jesus said, that if we believe that Jesus is the Christ, we are SPIRIT BEGOTTEN. But the WT totally miss that out, and prefer to keep their subjects in darkness.

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