Comments You Will Not Hear at the 1-1-06 WT Study (Upright--Hosea3)

by blondie 24 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • cyber-sista

    the elders told me that they were judges for Jehovah (when I was protesting their unfair judging of a situation I was in). I think I read something like this in their little elders manual...


  • blondie
    6 Hypocrisy has no place among Jehovah's servants.
    Yeah – right

    Yah, Stilla, my thoughts exactly. In fact, hypocrites are rewarded and promoted.

    You must be an oldtimer, Bonnie_Clyde.

    I believe Ray Franz said that it was himself who wrote the 1976 article about "Sacred Service" being our entire life course including taking care of our families, visit the sick, etc.. It was Fred Franz who changed back to "Sacred Service" applying only to activities directly related to the WT such as door to door service, building kingdom halls, Bethel service, etc.

    Notice how even after the WT study in 1980, it took a QFR to really clarify the 180-degree change. Reminds me of how many old-timer JWs today still haven’t grasped the "generation" change of 1995.

    Only a mention, Serenpidity. A secondary aside which makes Jesus seem to have as much personality as a hammer.

    I have another idea about that, yesidid.

    That could be the case. Like you I am at a loss to explain their consistant use of OT when they are not talking to Jews but supposed Christians.

    Also, the OT in the NWT liberally uses "Jehovah" in the text. While the WTS has put "Jehovah" in scriptures quoted from the OT and have put "Jehovah" in other areas of the NT that never appeared in the oldest Greek manuscripts, Jesus is obviously the theme of the NT. 1 st century Christians were not burdened with rules like the 600 laws under the Mosaic Law. In order to make JWs of today accept the multitudinous rules of the WTS, focusing on the OT would make sense.

    Yours Chelbie,

    The parallels just don't make sense to me. Is the WT interpretation that Christendom = Israel = Other Sheep (or Great Crowd)????

    Quick and dirty answer: Anointed JWs = heavenly Jerusalem, Christendom = earthly Jerusalem

    Other Sheep/GC = non-Israelities = Gentiles. There was an article about other people who represent the GC in its relationship to spiritual Israel.

    And Why are there "two hopes" a heavenly and an earthly? When in fact The Scriptures say in essence that "there is neither Jew nor Gentile, but in every nation the one who does the will of God is acceptable to him."

    By 2 hopes, I will answer this in regard to Christians. The heavenly hope was offered to Christians only as I understand the Bible account. I never understood that people before then or that non-Christians would go to heaven (I know there are many on JWD that have different opinions).

    It was the understanding of the WTS originally that all "true" Christians (only Bible Students) would go to heaven. In fact they only looked for people with the hope; they didn’t bother much with anyone would did not think they were of the 144,000/anointed. The 144,000 would function as the priests did in the temple, the GC would go to heaven but function like the Levites. When those partaking started approaching 50,000 (55,000 in 1935), Rutherford knew he had to come with a new twist to this. Why I don’t know since the GC would be going to heaven as well and could account for their being more than 144,000 partaking.

    So basically, everyone that follows Christ, should be going to heaven, IMO.


    , I know what you mean.
    Wow, this article just droned on and on and made much to do about nothing.

    I did find it interesting that they mentioned "sacred service" knowing that most of the audience at the KH would not know about how that was an exciting point only to have their hopes dashed. Giving the elders permission to make shepherding calls and feel that they were doing the work of Christ and not feeling guilty about not putting it on a time slip, was amazing. But then the wall dropped in 1980.


    If you are going to get tipsy, I say do it in style. No cheap wine; guaranteed hangover. Does anyone remember Ripple or Boone’s Farm.


    you mentioned the fall of Samaria,

    I sat through many a book study and WT study on that topic. I tried sleeping but I snore too loud.


    And we are delighted to do this in full cooperation with "the faithful and discreet slave."-Matthew 24:45-47
    OHH jeezus where was the gag alert on this blondie?

    Sorry, I must have been asleep at the wheel.

    Hi Nate Merit,

    Yes, I couldn’t reconcile a baby’s head being smashed for any reason even when I was 11 and first encountered these scriptures.

    I just mentally separated the OT from the NT and knew that Jesus would never do anything like that.

    Hi Stillawitness,

    Yes, but then many JWs run to the elders with every little sin they commit (or the sins they think others have done) and make a right big pest of themselves. I can still hear some elders bemoaning getting a call at 3 am from Sister ThinksSheCommittedTheUnforgivableSin for the 10 th time that month. Or BrotherGetsIntoDisputesWithEveryone and runs to the elders at the meeting insisting that Matthew 18 must be applied for 3 hours afterwards.

    As to the other, just remember that the WTS speaks out of both sides of their mouth. It is a control mechanism used by many cults to keep its members always guessing what they should be doing.

    Also, ask yourself what do the elders do when you go to them with a sin; what they actually do, not what the WTS says they should do? Say you had a smoking problem; how can they tell you really stopped, After initially meeting with you, you will be reproved, if not publicly, at least privately. Then "restrictions" will be placed on you, not being able to answer, not being in the school (is that it for sisters?). How does they help you repattern your smoking behavior. BTW you could not use the patch to quit smoking. Would they check with you to see how things are going, would they befriend you or avoid you as bad association. Would a local needs talk be given warning people about smoking? Compare that to secular programs designed to help people quit smoking? Would telling the elders really be helpful to you, would you get true support?

    The 06 prophecies are funny, yet I do believe we are going to see the many more years I couldn't guess, but I do believe it will happen in our lifetime

    You must be pretty young, Flash. I don’t worry about the end, just today, and then only what I can do about it, or at least I try. The people who made those 06 prophecies are serious, you know. Just as serious as the WTS and other groups who believe that the end-times are here now.


    Boring…….boring……oh, you mean the WT study at the KH. I always tried to answer especially during the boring ones. If I still attended now, I would have slipped in one about how the understanding of sacred service changed in 1976 and changed back in 1980.

    Bro. B says insightful things like: "If you don't have a close relationship with God, you are hypocritical in your worship.

    Actually what he means is a close relationship with the WTS because no one can get to God without going through the WTS/FDS. The commands of the WTS are taught as the doctrines of God.

    (Matthew 15:6-9) . . .. 7

    YOU hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about YOU, when he said, 8 ‘This people honors me with their lips, yet their heart is far removed from me. 9 It is in vain that they keep worshiping me, because they teach commands of men as doctrines.. . .

    This may become one of my regular slogans, "We don't confess our sins to the elders, do we? Isn't God our judge?"

    That will frustrate them. Many JW elders spend more time "judging" than they do shepherding.

    WESAYSO was the name of the company in the Muppet Show, Dinosaurs.

    the elders told me that they were judges for Jehovah

    That is based on OT information.

    What does the NT say? Does it say that a committee of 3 men did the judging or did the whole congregation participate in the investigation and the decision? Interestingly, that is how the Bible Students do it, at the congregational level, with a secret ballot. By 1932 that had changed completely with the arrival of the appointing of elders by the WTS headquarters and not the congregation.

    Good comments everyone. And for those that actually attended, may your endurance be strengthened.

  • Confession

    I was told once by some elders (informally) that homosexuality was a worse sin than adultery or murder because it was a GROSS sin.

    Got a kick out of this... Certainly the WTS recognizes adultery or murder as a "gross sin," but I did once hear a speaker (I believe at an elder school) explain why homosexuality was a greater sin than fornication. He propounded that the further away a sin goes from Jehovah's original intention, the worse. The idea being that fornication was breaking God's law on cleanness, but homosexuality was breaking this law and Jehovah's law of "what is natural."

    In discussing this with my older brother, I made the comment that--according to the Bible--both fornicators and "men who lie with men" go to the same place: the lake of fire. The scriptures make no distinction. Another case of old, puritanical men deciding for others what is right and wrong--and creating their own categories of such.

  • blondie

    Hi Confession, I reasoned with them similarly, pointing out that the punishment was the same, eternal death. I did ask if the homosexual would be resurrected and then killed again. They did not find that very amusing.

    I also looked up what a gross sin was and showed them in the WT publications; more or less a "don't confuse us with the facts, missy" type of look.


  • Confession
    I did ask if the homosexual would be resurrected and then killed again. They did not find that very amusing.


    I really do need to start a list. Upon my "awakening," I knew there had been many flashpoints over the years. But I really had forgotten so many of them. This position that homosexuality was somehow worse than fornication was just another "hmmmmm" I experienced while in.

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