Advice, please! Concerning the 2 witness rule

by whyizit 17 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  happy man

  More, questions.

  This ruel about two wittnes, is like this , it must be two reliabel wittneses,(JW in godd standing) wich meens it must bee two Jehovan Wittneses, this sound unbelevebel but I know this from a case in my cong, when we have a wittnes from the so called wordley peopel(not JW), when the elders ask headqurter they say, we dont use peoepl as not are JW as wittnes, in the elder book it says if you want you can use non JW, but the polyci is to not do this.

  The same thing widh peopel as are under 15, in the elder book it says it is up to the elders to decide, but if you ask the headquorter the say we dont use children as wittneses, also this I know from a case in our cong.

  So it seems to bee alsmost impossibel to caught a phedofile fore examppel, wher do you hade two JW in god standing, and not under 15, as wittnes to things like this.

  A third question is, do we use DNA as a second wittnes, my quess is no, perhaps some here know how it is.
• 

  rebel8

  The "why" of it is anyone's guess. You are absolutely right in that it creates a great protection for the rapists. Molestation is rarely witnessed, and even when there is one (the victim), if the person is not old enough or considered credible, he/she doesn't count. The JW culture allows easy access to children. These are perfect conditions under which a molester can operate, virtually unrestrained.

  I doubt DNA would be considered a witness. They would bring you back to the scriptures that mention human witnesses, not scientific evidence. Plus they do not believe in science or secular authorities who are "Satan's servants".

  If you're being told that non-JWs cannot be considered credible witnesses, that is disgusting!
• 

  Confession

  If you're being told that non-JWs cannot be considered credible witnesses, that is disgusting!

  You should know that in the pedophilia case I chaired 8.5 years ago, we definitely did use the testimony of an accuser who had never been baptized and who hadn't attended a meeting in nearly ten years. That said, it's true that it comes down to the discretion of the elders on that committee. In our case, the only person who didn't think it was right to use the non-JW's testimony was (big surprise) the accused elder. Needless to say his wishes were not honored.

  Until the WTS creates and supports a vigorous policy of informing all victims and families of their rights, encouraging them to go forward--and a "hands-off" promise if they do, they will continue to reap the fury of those whose lives have been touched by pedophilia.
• 

  hamsterbait

  Happyman -

  This whole "2witness" thing means that a man can be convicted of MURDER and still be in 'good standing ' with the congo.

  I cited a case where a Brother continued his affair with a prostitute after he got married. He strangled the poor woman in a rage when she threatened to expose him.

  Not DF not PR. Unbelievable!

  As for spending the night in a house with a woman - the WBTS says that when Samson stayed over with a prostitute he only "Went in" to her. ie No sex.

  It seems only prophets and the FDS have no real desire to copulate.

  HB
• 

  Mr Rocky

  The two witness rule is not the problem!!!!!!!!! What is the Problem is that the elders try to stop the victim from going to the police. The law has different rules as to determine guilt.The State uses DNA, eye witness and other. If the elders only used their rules for in house salvation issues nothing would be wrong. But they have always wanted to determine first if a person was guilty before anybody went to outside help. This is done so that if they are trully working with a bad person then they could disfellowship him first. Wheather or not that's a lying victim or a lying perpetrator. Then they could say that he wasn't a Witness anymore when it became public knowledge. This protects their image.

  The rub comes in when new science comes into play like DNA coupled with Watchtower not caring to understanding the difference between salvation and crime. For that matter the difference between Church and State as brought out by the book "God verses the Gavel". By the time the elders get done playing their little Org protection game the victim has lost this DNA evidence. Also if for any number of reasons the elders decide that the victim doesn't have biblical support the elders interfear by threatening disfellowshipping the victim. This amounts to aid and abetting the criminal activity in my opinion.

  The two witness rule only becomes a problem when the Org crosses the line from it being an in house salvation issue and the rights of a victim in a criminal case.

  Answer to the problem-

  Victims need to go to the police first where they will be helped get justice from the latest science. Later the elders can decided who was right or wrong before god. And to hell with the reputation of Watchtower!!!!
• 

  hamsterbait

  Absolutely!!

  If my daughter was raped, I would be on the phone to the police first. Vital phorensics could be lost in the time it takes to call WT Legal Desk.

  If a so called "Brutha" did it it would not change my actions.

  HB
• 

  belbab

  Whyizit, and all,

  Just as the Watchtower has misrepresented medical information to support their blood policy in order to avoid financial liability and court cases,

  they have also misrepresented Bible teaching to cover their butts.

  Go to: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/24050/1.ashx

  I truly do not understand why people who want to expose the horrendous coverup of child abuse policies of the Watchtower do not grasp this:

  The Bible has cases where One human witness with an oath to Heavens above are sufficent to establish guilt or innocence.

  Please, folks, try and grasp this, and make it known. Don't continue to be brainwashed by their widespread proclamation of the two witness rule.

  In the Walsh case in Scotland, years ago, they tried to establish in the courts that freedom of religion allows them to tell lies. They claim telling lies is OK for theocratic warfare. In the meantime, innocent lives are being burnt as a burnt offering to their Holy Gawd,

  belbab, with emphasis on emphasis
• 

  whyizit

  Thank you so much for all of your advice! I have learned so much and you have helped more than you know. Especially where Scriptures were used to support that there need not be two witnesses, but a thorough investigation. You are all incredible people and my hat is off to you!