I always wanted to live on earth. When I was a child it was always painted to me as so ideal to be able to be friends with animals, like the perfect fantasy playground. I could never imagine what there would even be to do in heaven, it always seemed very boring to me.
When you were a JW, which would you have prefered living on earth or heaven
I have to say I think they have a point that many people would "choose" Earth (as if the choice would really be ours to make). The JWs teach that most humans have a natural desire to continue their life on Earth provided it would be under perfect conditions. The Catholic retort to that is that humans only think that because they have never experienced life in Heaven and can't even imagine what it would be like.
You're being too 'logical' !
The dubs response to this would be that Jesus was speaking of "the anointed" (144,000).
The problem the dubs have is explaining why it is that in the NT there's nothing else but a "heavenly hope"!! The WTS try to explain it by saying that at the time the NT was written they wee all of "the anointed" and so it was written to them.
I could never figure why if that were the case, we should be applying all the onerous bits to the "great crowd" - like qualifying for "privileges" and disfellowshiping and shunning and even "the Memnorial". Why should I go? if I wasn't invited and I wasn't going to partake? Why did we do our darnedest to get so many to come along? Always troubld me as well as going to the doors and not have one scripture in the NT that speaks of us living on earth.
As far as I know, golf is an earthly game.
Is this how you got a hole in one Golf?
Why should I go? if I wasn't invited and I wasn't going to partake? Why did we do our darnedest to get so many to come along?
Oh man, does that bring some memories. How many times did I invite "worldly" people to come to the memorial and then had to go through painful process of explaining and making sure they had it clear in their minds they were NOT suppose to partake.
and g'day to you too
I may be revealing too much here, but my answer is niether. When I was at Bethel at lunch one day this guy ask me "so Darth what do you look forward to doing in the new system." with out missing a beat I replied 'build my own spaceship and cruise the galaxy.' The table head, who was also my overseer, then chimed in 'so Darth what you look forward to is getting away from the rest of us.' I should have takin that as a sign.
OK maybe I'm a weirdo and am intrigued by the unknown, I was quite upset when they told me I wasn't going to heaven. I am quite relieved now to know that is where I am going. I always wanted to go to heaven. In fact I look forward to the day.
I was taught that naturally I'd prefer an earthly existence instead of heavenly.
But now, i don't care since I don't believe in that stuff anyways. Or - it's not important to me. Aren't we supposed to focus on the present?
So lets keep the Brooklyn boys to their own rule-books and apply the onerous bits to themselves: We can kick 'm out with them not being able to touch us (faulty logic - I know).
But seriously now, I very much appreciate your input here ozzie. Things are starting to fall into place for me much more now. IMO, the WTS sacrificed the designations of "God" and "Christian" so as to set themselves apart from the "so-called Christians" or Christians "in name only," together with the perception these others had of the concept of the God of the Bible. In doing so, they had to revert back to the OT God-concept and his supposed name, implanting it into the NT.
Paradoxically, the consequence of this is that "the great crowd" - who "cannot" be full brothers with Christ, and do not have a direct mediator in him, and are thus theoretically further removed from God - can actually BYPASS Christ altogether and are being sold the direct and immediate friendship with God that only Abraham was said to have.
I find this concept of direct "friendship with Jehovah" to be more heavily promoted in the WT lately. In one of the recent WT's they actually went so far as to portray God-Jehovah/God-the-Father as being humble. This is one of the essential qualities that Christ was supposed to display as HIS example to follow.
Furthermore, WTS (formerly known as Fred Franz) is able to bore the living daylights out of the R&F with their esoteric OT-bible-commentary-style-prophesy-exegesis of Hosea/Daniel/Isaiah etc. Consequently, the R&F are not only saddled with the depressing and incomprehensible account of mass murder and mayhem of the OT, but in the process are also deprived of identifying with the more modern Greek-style boy and girl-brothers of Christ and his upbeat message.
Somehow, not having to share a boring heaven with 144.000 religious zealots of the Brooklyn kind OR having the prospect of an eternal outdoor bear-cub & cobra patting district assembly picnic with the trimmed paradise perfection and fluorescence of virid fields and the true blues of perfect skies, ANY future prospect sounds a lot more appealing...
(I'll dig in to my earthly existence now. Just to be sure.)
G'day van Gogh,
In one of the recent WT's they actually went so far as to portray God-Jehovah/God-the-Father as being humble.
That reminded me of the WT that described Jesus as "a Public Servant" !
Of course, the more they minimalise Jevah and Jesus, the more they elevate themselves!
BTW, glad you joined the forum. I hope you'll enjoy your stay here.