Did God create good and evil?

by THE SHOOTIST 23 Replies latest watchtower beliefs


    Isaiah 45:7 says he did. Gen. 3:16/17 says that he placed the tree of knowledge of good and bad in the middle of the garden.
    Didn't God say in Gen 3:22 that after man ate of the fruit he has become like us (the Gods)knowing good and evil. Isn't that what Satan said?
    So who's at fault for the downfall of man, Satan or God? I think the answer is obvious!!
    Think about Cain, who caused the jealousy to erupt between brothers just because God wanted some blood instead of vegetables?
    If you believe the Bible and look take it for what it says, then we're all in deep crap if we believe in this kind of a God. He's acts just like a spoiled kid with an ant farm.

  • skyman

    I have alway thought this.

  • tetrapod.sapien

    amen man. i was going to say that i can't recall satan ever lying or killing anyone either. if anything, he invited humans to dump his immature father, and become as gods themselves. which is worth noting, because he did not want people to worship him per se, but more wanted people to think for themselves. maybe he knew god was lying to them. perhaps satan represents this classic religious conflict: the ability to rationalize that god is a dumb jerk (assuming he exists), but being in denial about it. the diff is that satan is not in denial. and neither am i anymore. good for you SHOOTIST.

    sure sure, satan kills job's family. but man, that book reeks of hidden motive. and he asked jesus to do an act of worship to him, but i swear that was out of sadistic pleasure. but that passage makes satan look dumb, since he knew he could not give such kingdoms of the world, only god could, so i doubt it is true either, LOL.

    did god create good and evil? no. god, good and evil.... i have a really, really hard time believing that any of three actually exist. or if they do, then it would have to be in relative and subjective sense of the words.


  • Cognitive_Dissident

    This calls to mind a line from a Chuck Palahniuk book,

    "being born makes your parents God. You owe them your life, and they can control you. Then puberty makes you Satan, just because you want something better." - Invisible Monsters

    I'm with you Shootist, if we were to take the bible as the supposed word of God, then we'd be putting our faith in a god who, if he were a parent, would be universally denounced as unfit.

    CD edited: spelling

  • bother_forever

    Could we have good without evil and vice versa? Could we have a right holy god without an evil god? I don t know the answer, its a case for the philosophers to debate, but its sounds like the "ying-yang" way of belief and I think there is merit to the fact we must have an opposite to all things for that thing to exist ( this is basically speaking here, I know you can be shot down in this forum unless you know ALL the facts, and I dont.) So the way I see it please dont destroy Satan, god, we need him to balance the equation.

  • greendawn

    I don't stick with the Old Testament view of God but prefer to see him in the New Testament context, as a God reconciled to mankind through the Christ, that is as God the Father not as God the Lord.

    Thereafter if mankind under the influence of the very Satan that you praise, fails to obey the gospel to find peace and salvation that's their tough problem.

  • Benjamin Belial
    Benjamin Belial

    This is why I like the gnostic view a lot better. There is no "one" gnostic view, but the basics seem to be that the God of the Garden of Eden was actually a vicious sadistic bastard called the Demiurge, his proper name being Yaldabaoth. He was our creator. The world is so twisted and cruel because our creator is twisted and cruel. God didn't want us to have knowledge, but Satan came and offered it to us in the form of the fruit. Later he came in the form of Jesus, and Yaldabaoth had him killed in order to quiet him. However, Satan/Jesus switched places with another man, who was crucified in his place, while Jesus ran off laughing.

    So yeah. Gnosticism all the way. Seems to make more sense, aside from the whole killing an innocent man thing. That's not in all the texts though :P and may be rather rare. Most of the rest of it is pretty common Gnostic belief though. Constantine even had a temple to Sophia if I recall, who was Yaldabaoth's mother. (Yaldabaoth is not the true god, just a fake that Christians and Jews worship.)

    There are some very interesting things about Sophia but I'll save them for if anyone is interested.

  • jstalin

    I've often wondered (but have never looked it up) if the origins of Lucifer have anything to do with the myths of ancient Greece. Prometheus was punished by Zeus for bringing fire (light) to humans. Lucifer was punished for bringing knowledge to humans. There seems to be as similar story in several types of myth.

  • AuldSoul

    Paul says sin cannot exist without law. If we are to believe the Bible, God made the first law. You do the math...


  • zen nudist
    zen nudist

    what determines good vs evil? many people seem to think some things simply are one or the other and don't consider why very deeply, but it bothered me and I looked into it and one day it occurred to me what Genesis is really saying.....

    before any concept of good and evil exists, there is only your perceptions of reality as you find it, its just there, nothing good, nothing evil, just sights, sounds, feelings, etc....

    the tree of knowledge represents an artificial line which seperates some of reality into good and some into bad based on an IDEAL, which is the part I was having a hard time seeing..... this IDEAL is often unconscious within us and difficult to see its boundries, but once you get a handle on it, it becomes the framework which you use to compare reality and divide it up, some of it good, some of it evil.... depending on how it helps or harms this IDEAL....

    the bible is basically saying the power to define the IDEAL belonged to no one but God and if Man took this power unto himself only trouble would result.... when Adam and Eve ate they lost paradise.... the could no longer see things as they were, but were now dividing them into good and evil catagories based on fantasy ideals of their own making, arbitrary and ignorant fantasies...they saw they were naked, vulerable and defenseless and fear resulted from their anticipation of punishment and harm... and since they did not die, the expected god to come along and kill them so they hid.

    interestingly enough God does not kill them nor cause their death in any way, however he tells his hidden audiance that man, now like the Elohim, knowing good and evil for themselves [interesting that the other beings were not seeing one god as the ultimate ideal maker, no?]

    cannot be allowed to live forever in this state, no explanation why though is given, however the unfolding of the rest of genesis, indicates that with this knowledge the thoughts of man always degenerate and lead to nothing but violence.

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