My response from the CCoJW inre UN/DPI

by AuldSoul 39 Replies latest watchtower scandals

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  Jourles

  The WTS will never, NEVER give out even a redacted version of their application to become an NGO. To do so would likely mean proving that they lied.

  The only way to see their original application papers is to acquire them from another NGO from around the same time period(it would be ideal to get redacted applications from 1990 and 1992). Meaning, all applications should have been the same and not created independently for each individual organization. A few years ago, I requested via email roughly 30 organizations for a redacted version of their NGO applications. I never received a response. Maybe that was the wrong route to take? Would a letter writing campaign to several NGO's help? This is the only way, I feel, that we will ever see these applications from that time period --- from other organizations that would be willing to help out.

  You can count on the WTS to never let their original application see the light of day again.
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  Marvin Shilmer

  Hello, Jourles

  You write:

  "You can count on the WTS to never let their original application see the light of day again."

  I don't disagree. But there is still an advantage to asking for copies of these supposedly innocent documents that supposedly verify what the WTS claims.

  The advantage is to demonstrate how the WTS refuses to verify itself to its own membership, even when the verification is 1) admittedly in possession, 2) easy to produce and 3) should supposedly stamp out any doubt about the veracity of WTS claims.

  Those of us experienced in this do not need another dog and pony show to demonstrate what we already know. But outsiders will learn a great deal from this refusal.

  Marvin Shilmer
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  Honesty

  I sincerely appreciate that the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society (hereinafter referred to as the WTBTS) decided to affiliate with the United Nations for almost ten years before severing the relationship for the following reasons:

  1. The elapsed time of their affiliations precludes any and all explanations that the WTBTS was not fully aware of the conditions of association by a religious body as a NGO affiliated with the United Nations.

  2. The elapsed time allowed the WTBTS to attend verifiable and documented meetings in which they were associated with several non-christian religious organisations that also attended. Specifically, meetings at the Australian Parliament attended by WTBTS Australian Branch representative Don MacLean and a WTBTS attorney.

  3. The WTBTS's nine+ year affiliation with the UN and their subsequent disassociation from that body removes any doubt in my mind that the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses were unaware of this covenant agreement and the responsibilities of the WTBTS to continue association with the UN as a NGO.

  4. The extended period of time involved destroyed all trust and faith I had that the WTBTS and its Governing Body were appointed by Jesus as His representative on earth.

  5. It allowed me to leave the WTBTS and its affiliates with every single ounce of my integrity and self-respect intact because almost every Jehovah's Witness within my former circuit is aware that my departure was not due to me personally bringing reproach upon God as has been circulated throughout the circuit. On the contrary, I am only the messenger of the news that the WTBTS has brought reproach upon God by their actions and denial of responsibilty. I do admit that I am not ashamed to spread this Good News of the WTBTS vocally to any and all Jehovah's Witness I encounter in a public environment such as the grocery store, wal-Mart, etc. as this allows the general public to be made aware of the hypocrisy of the WTBTS and its local 'Christian' Congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses.

  So, once again I say thankyou to Mr. Theodore Jarazc
• 

  Spectrum

  AudSoul,
  
  I'm ignorant of the intricacies and implications of this UN business but one thing that struck me in their response is the bit where they say that they behave no differently with goverments they have to deal with on a frequent basis. The UN is just a collection of governments so what principle is it that they have broken?
  
  You can not deal with governments even Christ said - give to caeser unto ceaser and God to God.
• 

  AuldSoul

  My father is the PO in my congregation and he could not get a copy on direct request. He seemed satisfied with having it read to him, but he also believes they tell the truth...so, there you go.

  I'll be glad when those doors close one last time, and the 112 year old Jaracz says softly, "But...we were so close."

  I have a dream. And except for Jaracz living to the age of 112, it is likely to come true.

  AuldSoul
• 

  Jourles

  The advantage is to demonstrate how the WTS refuses to verify itself to its own membership, even when the verification is 1) admittedly in possession, 2) easy to produce and 3) should supposedly stamp out any doubt about the veracity of WTS claims.

  Oh, I know. In a past letter I sent to family and friends, I mentioned to them that if the WTS was telling the truth, then they had no fear of releasing their application. For one, it would prove that they were indeed being persecuted by Satan himself(the UN/DPI lying about their policy of association), and that it would show the entire brotherhood that they were the ones telling the truth. If their application contains no wording that would compromise their stance, then they having nothing to fear by releasing their papers. But they never will...
• 

  Marvin Shilmer

  Honesty,

  Your experience is exactly one of the WTS' fears.

  The WTS has tried its best to build an aura of moral high ground around its affairs and teachings; hence the WTS has acquired not a few adherents who are intent on maintaining themselves on moral high ground. Because these put morality above personal preference these moral high-grounders will drop the WTS like a hot potato if and when they discover the WTS has constructed itself on a moral ruse commonly called hypocrisy. When the WTS elected to voluntarily associate itself with the United Nations (supposedly the mother of all idols!) it tipped its hand that either 1) is it far from discreet (as in "faithful and discreet"!) or 2) it is hypocritical right to the core.

  Marvin Shilmer
• 

  AuldSoul

  Spectrum,

  If you have the book Organized to Do Jehovah's Will, page 155, paragraph 2 reads:

  Concerning those who renounced their Christian faith in his day, the apostle John wrote: “They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us.” (1 John 2:19) For example, a person might renounce his place in the Christian congregation by his actions, such as by becoming part of a secular organization that has objectives contrary to the Bible and, hence, is under judgment by Jehovah God. (Isa. 2:4; Rev. 19:17-21) If a person who is a Christian chooses to join those who are disapproved by God, a brief announcement is made to the congregation, stating: “[Name of person] is no longer one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.” Such a person is treated in the same way as a disfellowshipped person. The presiding overseer should approve this announcement.

  The book Organized to Accomplish Our Ministry contains the same concept on page 151, paragraph 1. That is their published and enforced standard. So, when they wrote to me that they view the UN no differently than any other government it begs the question: Which departments of other governments have they similarly engaged in voluntary memberships with? Are not the governments, and the UN in particular, secular organizations with objectives contrary to the Bible and under judgment by God? Can I join the military for commissary access, or to get funds for college?

  In the letter, they play word games. They want to argue over how they have stated they view the UN, however the 1963 Resolution (w63 11/15 pp. 684-687) adopted "by a grand total of 454,977 conventioners" is clear on the issue of attaching to the UN in any member capacity. Even if this wasn't already decided by Resolution in 1963, their interpretation of the Scriptures in the above quoted paragraph should make it clear.

  They can view government any way they like, from a distance. When they become joined to any part of it, they have committed gross sin by their own standards.

  Respectfully,
  AuldSoul
• 

  AuldSoul

  Marvin,

  I'm going for door number 3) all of the above!

  AuldSoul
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  Marvin Shilmer

  Jourles,

  Application? What the WTS does not want to have seen in the light of day is all the correspondence between itself and the UNDPI as it maintained its status as an associate NGO to the United Nations over nearly a 10-year period.

  Anyone asking for WTS documents on this matter should ask for any and all documents, not just the initial applications for association. This is where the coziness of the WTS' association shows up. Of course, as AuldSoul has already pointed out, the very heading of the initial application says it all; its right there in bold print, "Association". After all, it is the WTS who has so ingrained JWs around the world that bad association spoils useful habits. How much worse can association get? The United Nations is supposedly the mother of idols!

  Marvin Shilmer