The turning point of the apostate movement?

by undercover 26 Replies latest jw friends

  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee

    Ya know

    When the sexual abuse scandal hit there were people who thought it was the rare occassions. That most situations were handled correctly. A lot of people just could not believe the problem was a huge as it was and that the WTS could not have known about these rare occurances.I think for the most part people were just so shocked to believe sexual abuse was far bigger than they anticipated.

    I think too for many, even those who have left, and know how the WTS lies to their own members there will be a certain amount of denial regarding the lengths the WTS will go to protect themselves and to make issues while sacrificing individuals for what they believe is "the cause" Kingdom interests.

    So many put their entire trust in the organization. We were told we had "the Truthâ„¢". To begin to grasp the enormity of the betrayal is going to take time.

    The WTS has played us. They have sacrificed us - adults and children. Those of us who had members who died because of WT lies regarding blood must feel tremendously betrayed right now. Those of us who had friends who died must feel betrayed. Those of us who had near misses must feel betrayed.

    Lies lies and more lies. They are the furthest thing from the truth as they can get.

  • avishai

    Well said, lady lee.


    LL...I don't think there is anyone here on this board, besides defd, that think the WTS hasn't told thousands of lies...I just don't see why people think this is any different!!! They had an opportunity to get the JW's out of Germany, but they encouraged them to stay and trust in Jehovah...think about the thousands that died over that. All they would have had to have done is spend a litte $$$ and they could have saved them all. Same in Africa...but they are not going to and never have spent a dime to save fellow JW's. Think of what they those in Malawi endured and had they spent a few $$$ they could have saved most of them too. It's all been LIES and they have just put their spin on it!!!

    I often wondered when my sons were small and if they had to face the issue of blood transfusion, would I have let them die? Holding my sick baby in my arms, knowing that he needed a life saving blood transfusion...I probably would have believed God would forgive me for my sins...that's what the ransom sacrifice was all about anyway wasn't it? When you think about it, it's the dr or nurse that puts that needle in. I never had to face that particular situation.

    When my husband was in several life of death situations(hemoglobin 3) regarding blood, I always asked him PRIVATELY what he wanted to do and told him that I would stand by his decision. His choice was that he would not take blood. He didn't base this on anything medically, but only on what he believed the Bible stated. At one time I would have done the same, for the same reasons...not because of misinformation the WTS put out. Even now, depending on the situation, I want the right to choose whether to take blood or not. If I am going to be paralyzed for the rest of my life and have brain problems, don't transfuse me to prolong my life...I'd like to see if there is a better place anyway.


    P.S My husband died due to several different health problems, but refused blood to prolong his life. He was very sick and had he lived the prognosis wasn't good. At the end, he told me there were worse things in life than dying...

  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee


    First I am so sorry to read about your husband. That must have been a difficult time for you.

    It's one thing to know information in the abstract. Yes they lie. We have plenty of examples. Yes they sacrificed people for the organization. Human nature finds it so easy to not attend to the cold hard facts of a situation until it bites them emotionally.

    An example:

    I've never forgotten being sent to foster care to supposedly "protect" me from one of by abusers. That meant I was sent to live with someone who was not a JW and who had no desire to let me go the the KH. And they left the abuse in the home where there were other children and in the congregation. I "knew" all this.

    But I explained it away. I explained to myself (with a lot of "help" from my mother) that this was a protection for me. She needed him to stay in the home to help her take care of my 4 siblings and her 3 brothers who she had custody over. She was acting in my best interests and in the interests of the family. I bought it. I so totally believed she had my best interests at heart. She loved me and this was how she was showing it - to keep me safe. I was 12 years old.

    It wasn't until I was in my 40s that the emotional impact of this finally hit me. All those years I suppressed the reality that my mother had sent me away to protect herself. She was in love with this man and was going to blame me to "seducing" him. She holds that belief to this day.

    I went along with the story for all those years. I think it was just too painful to believe that my mother would choose a child abuser as her mate over her child. When it finally hit me I felt like someone ripped my heart out. I have never seen my mother in quite the same way as I did as a child.

    I think this whole issue of the misrepresentation is the same kind of thing. Even while I was a witness I knew there were changes in the books. I thought nothing of it. It was so "minor", just a few things here and there. I, like others who saw it, shrugged it off. Typos. "New light" It was in our best interests.

    I have been out for over 20 years now. For the first 10 of those years I was still a believer. It never would have occured to me that the WTS was wrong, that it deliberately lied to JWs.

    We've gone through the UN membership and the sexual abuse exposes. For me the sexual abuse scandal hit me hard. I knew there were a couple of people who had been abused besides me. I really didn't give it a lot of thought regarding my association with the JWs - until I found out there were so many more victims.

    Then I found out not only are there thousands of other victims, there are thousands of abusers and almost every one of them got off with no reporting to officials and no help given to victims.

    The emotional impact hit me.

    Two other issues have hit me in the same way - suicide and child kidnapping. I knew these things happened. But the emotional impact hit me hard. And again it came years after the events occurred.

    Betrayal of trust is devastating to most people. As a child I trusted that my mother would always be there to protect me and always have my best interests at heart. As a teen and adult I trusted the WTS would do the same. Even though I've been here quite a while now and read so many stories and done so much research I was in a denial that the WTS could betray trust so devastatingly. The emotional impact has hit me.

    Considering the reactions on the board to this "news" I think that some people have not been able to digest the emotional impact. For that matter we are still trying to understand the meaning and impact of it all.

  • shark attack
    shark attack


  • Gill

    It's GOOD to disagree! It's good to see different viewpoints!

    Those who broke this news should not feel disheartened at all the different comments, good and bad!

    This is NOT the bOrg!

    Many a war has been won by a guerilla army!

    VIETNAM ..... for instance!

    Don't get disheartened. We'll bring them down yet but we can only do it a bit at a time.

    To be honest, I think they're going to hang themselves in the end, (the FDS, WTBTS etc) with all their legalities.

    Hey! Didn't Babylon fall in the end. Some one left a gate open, if I remember rightly and the same will happen to the invincible WTBTS.

    Just wait and see. As someone once said....'look and see how the mighty one has fallen!'

  • Rabbit

    'Independence Day'...the vast majority of us here have had one of those days. The day we said "No!," to the WT's intrusion into our lives. We may have 'screamed' it out loud or said it 'silently' to ourselves or to trusted friends. None of us can be 'totally' free of the WT, because, of on-going pain, like shunning or from past pain.

    Until I'm dead the pain of my Mom's death (no blood transfusion) will be with me. The shunning at the hands of some of my children will hurt forever. If I do 'get' them back in my life...that pain can diminish. I have had close to 10 years of my children's lives taken from me & my life from theirs.

    I can understand the 'doubters' here. After all, we are the 'thinking' types, the 'doubting' types, the type of people who ask questions now. If we weren't -- we'd still be in the Kingdom Hall or the hospital trying to 'help' our loved ones die...because some old men in Brooklyn said so. Or going from door to door, inviting the public to 'come in to the fold' --- and be 'happy' like us.

    Here, we can debate. However, I cannot understand some of the fireworks I've seen. The ones that doubt that this is "Big News" may have never been 'touched' by the issue or maybe they think the Borg truly is like Teflon. Some are still active JW's and don't accept anything other than the Wt's words. The others, some that I know are long gone from the WT and want to see it's downfall as much as I do, don't 'see' it are taking a 'wait n' see' stance or they're just truly disappointed, because it's "not the bombshell they hoped for."

    But, to attack and malign Barbara Anderson for working hard for anything that will expose the Watchtower -- is stupid and disrespectful. Even if someone is disappointed, because they think this is nothing. We were advised in advance, that this was going to be something we could use as a "tool" and I believe that's exactly what it turned out to be.

    Look at all the 'newbies' and 'lurkers' who have posted for the 1st time. In my opinion, that's a 'Big' thing already. A "WIN" in our column.

    Is this even "worth our labors...?" Time will tell. There's a very old saying, "Can't never could," if we all sit back and let a few, like Barbara, do all the work -- nothing will happen. We were TOLD this in advance. WE need to be involved as much as possible if we really want to hurt the WT.

    And ya' know what ? If nothing 'Big' happens like we least we tried.

    PS: I love what someone (sorry I don't remember) said about "Dividing Apostates" - "That's like cutting melted butter..."

    There is no "apostate movement" we are much too fiercely independent for that. There is a massive leak thru which their membership is bleeding.

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