Does a person know if he has been saved?

by Honesty 41 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Honesty

    Back in the days (sometime around 2003) a CO informed our congregation that many publishers were being asked by householders if they 'are saved' and he told us to say, "I am in a saved 'condition'". We can only be sure we are saved when Armageddon has passed and we are still alive on earth. I thought the whole thing was bizzare because from what I had read in the Bible the early Christians knew they were saved but here was a representative of the Watchtower corporation telling publishers to say we were in a saved 'condition'.

    So, that is where the question for this thread came from.

    Does a person know if he has been saved?

    I've been thinking about it a lot today and have come to the conclusion that if one is not sure he has been saved then he can't in all good conscience go out and tell others how they can have salvation. It just doesn't make any sense. On the other hand, if a person knows without a doubt he has been saved and exactly what salvation entails then he or she can be very effective in doing the work of the Lord.

    Any thoughts or comments, even from the atheists and agnostics will be appreciated as I'm trying to help an elder down in Florida see how screwed up the Watchtower reasons on the basic tenets of Christianity.

  • Carmel

    "For ye are the life-laden winds, ye are the jessamine-scents from the gardens of the saved.

    Well is it with the doers of great deeds."

    (Abdu'l-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdu'l-Baha, p. 266)

  • defd

    Jesus said NO one is saved until the very end.

  • Scully

    Seriously, I don't care if I am or if I'm not. I don't need to be bribed to live a decent lifestyle and be a good person.

  • defd

    Scully I dont look at it as bribary but as a reward.


  • AlmostAtheist

    Interesting... What is the difference between a bribe, and a reward? I kind of think I know them when I see them, but I can't quite define them. Is my christmas bonus a bribe, or a reward?


  • Scully

    defd, what's the difference? If you're doing it because you think you might get a reward are your reasons for being a good person motivated by a selfish desire for the reward as much as they are motivated by a desire to "please God"? What if there was no reward? How many people would do what is right / moral without the motivation of a reward/bribe?

    Why would God need to offer rewards/bribes for good behaviour when he's given us "free will"?

  • Scully


    Main Entry: 2 reward
    Function: noun
    1 : something that is given in return for good or evil done or received and especially that is offered or given for some service or attainment
    2 : a stimulus administered to an organism following a correct or desired response that increases the probability of occurrence of the response
    Main Entry: 1 bribe
    Pronunciation: 'brIb
    Function: noun
    Etymology: Middle English, something stolen, from Middle French, bread given to a beggar
    1 : money or favor given or promised in order to influence the judgment or conduct of a person in a position of trust
    2 : something that serves to induce or influence

    Depending on your point of view, these definitions all work.

  • Honesty
    Jesus said NO one is saved until the very end.

    Take off the Watchtower Blinders and read your Bible, defd:

    Romans 10:8-9 (HCSB) This is the message of faith that we proclaim:

    if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

    John 3:17 (HCSB) For God did not send His Son into the world that He might judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.

    John 10:9 (HCSB) I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved and will come in and go out and find pasture.

    Acts 2:21 (HCSB) then whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.

    Acts 16:31 (HCSB) So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”

    Romans 5:9-11 (HCSB) Much more then, since we have now been declared righteous by His blood, we will be saved through Him from wrath.

    For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, [then how]much more, having been reconciled, will we be saved by His life! And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

    Romans 10:13 (HCSB) For everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.

    Eph 2:4-5 (HCSB) But God, who is abundant in mercy, because of His great love that He had for us,

    made us alive with the Messiah even though we were dead in trespasses. By grace you are saved!

    Romans 8:24 Now in this hope we were saved, yet hope that is seen is not hope, because who hopes for what he sees?

  • gumby

    Lets get Jesus's take on it.

    1. Matthew 5:22

      But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca, ' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.

      Matthew 5:21-23 )
    2. Matthew 5:29

      If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

      Matthew 5:28-30 
    3. Matthew 5:30

      And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

      Matthew 5:29-31

    Why didn't Jesus just tell everyone not to worry if they stumbled...or were angry with their brother..... since they would be saved regardless? Why did he give a consequence for disobeying his words?


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