JWs are also in the dark regarding the true meaning of Sheol/Hades.

by Schizm 49 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Nathan Natas
    Nathan Natas


    If Sheol/Hades/Hell is a place, it must be a metaphysical place - a place that does not exist in the physical realm, similar to Heaven.

    If the dead are in a metaphysical place called sheol, what part of them is there? Not their body bones or dust, for these are physical. Therefore, there must be a non physical component of a person that is able to "go" to sheol.

    Witnesses will tell you that they do not believe in the soul as a distinct part of a person, but they certainly do seem to believe in something that is very soul-like.

    I'm now an atheist. I don't believe that there is a metaphysical realm populated with any sorts of beings - gods, demons or angels, and I don't believe that humans have a non-physical component of their existence that goes anywhere when the body dies.

  • Nathan Natas
    Nathan Natas
    The Interpreter's Bible (Vol. 2, p. 1015) on 1 Samuel 25:29 observes: "... the idea of man as consisting of body and soul which are separated at death is not Hebrew but Greek." Similarly, Edmond Jacob, Professor of Old Testament at the University of Strasbourg, points out that, since in the Hebrew Scriptures one's life is directly related with the soul (Heb., ne'phesh), "it is natural that death should sometimes be represented as the disappearance of this nephesh (Gen. 35:18; 1 Kings 17:21; Jer. 15:9; Jonah 4:3). The 'departure' of the nephesh must be viewed as a figure of speech, for it does not continue to exist independently of the body, but dies with it (Num. 31:19; Judg. 16:30; Ezek. 13:19). No biblical text authorizes the statement that the 'soul' is separated from the body at the moment of death."-The Interpreter's Dictionary --AID TO BIBLE UNDERSTANDING [1971] article:"DEATH"
  • Leolaia
    Leolaia
    When did you first become an atheist?

    I'm not atheist....I'm an agnostic. Hence I enjoy learning about many different points of view about God and religion.

    Also, what years of your life were you a JW?

    Mother started studying when I was 6, started regular meeting attentance when I was 7. I began to seriously question things when I was 18, became convinced it was not the truth when I was 20, and fully left when I was 22.

  • Terry
    Terry



    I just wrote a rather lengthy post on Body, Soul, Spirit and the Messiah in which I referred to the fact that after the success of Alexander the Great in shattering the smug and complacent self-views of the known world in the 4th Century B.C.E. a complete changeover took place.



    Part of this change involved Judaism.



    Judaism absorbed both the Greek language and Greek thought (which included philosophy and science).



    There was inevitably a quest to creat EQUIVALENCY between the Hebrew language (and thinking) and the new GREEK language and thinking.



    Greek was vast in scope and definitions compared to Hebrew. It was a real stretch!



    From this point forward in history (Alexander's death) you'll find an abrupt mutation in Jewish theology.



    This includes the attempt to smooth over the difference between Hebrew thoughts about what "death" is and the place of death "Sheol" and Greek thought about "hades".



    Guess who won?



    The Greeks!



    When thinking changes; everything changes.



    The hope for an afterlife follows the conceptual change in what death is and where the dead reside.



    A discussion such as this one cannot take place in limbo. When we try to define what a religous view is of a certain doctrine we are absolutely compelled to be time/place specific.



    Why?



    Because thought changes over time by absorbing the blows of contrary influence.



    The mutations caused by the impact of contrary argument give us
    CURRENT ORTHODOXY.



    Hint: current orthodoxy is like the latest Windows platform; subject to revisions constantly.



    Religious debate leads to updates and revisions.



    It is an ongoing process.



    Belief does not take place in a vacuum.



    T.

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    He who controls the way we think, controls the world!

    (I had to use red, just for Skyman's benefit )

  • Dogpatch
    Dogpatch

    I did the most thorough comparison of the two major views of death and Hell a few years back, it is at:

    http://www.freeminds.org/doctrine/hellcomp.htm

    Randy

    Net Soup!

    http://www.freeminds.org

  • Schizm
    Schizm
    When did you first become an atheist?

    I'm not atheist....I'm an agnostic. Hence I enjoy learning about many different points of view about God and religion.
    Also, what years of your life were you a JW?

    Mother started studying when I was 6, started regular meeting attentance when I was 7. I began to seriously question things when I was 18, became convinced it was not the truth when I was 20, and fully left when I was 22.

    Thank you, Leolaia, for the reply. However, I have one last question, even one that I asked you once before. (Perhaps you never got back to the thread in order to see it?)

    The question: Who is the person in your avatar? Is that you as a child? Your granddaughter? If I'm not getting too personal, who is this ---->

    A beautiful child, regardless of who she is! Only a God could create such a beautiful being as her. I have trouble understanding how anyone can be agnostic.

    Thanks again,

    Schizm

    .

  • Schizm
    Schizm

    Hey Randy,

    How about you simply telling us what you believe sheol/hades is?

    .

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    hey Little Toe...thanks for the support!

    Schizm....She's my niece. And soooooooo sweet.

  • skyman
    skyman

    Leo I am also an agnostic which definition of agnostic are you?

    Little Toe loved your Red. Like mine?

    Definitions of Agnostic:

  • An Agnostic [1] [noun] [OW] embraces a worldview in which the existence of deity is unknown or unknowable. Derives from the Greek agnostos, a = without, gnostos = known or knowledge. "Agnostic[ism] [CE] was coined by Professor TH Huxley in 1869 to describe the mental attitude of one who regarded as futile all attempts to know the reality corresponding to our ultimate scientific, philosophic, and religious ideas."
    members.aol.com/porchnus/dict01.htm
  • one who believes that the evidence for and against the existence of God is inconclusive. (agnosticism)
    www.summit.org/resource/dictionary/
  • Agnostic: one who questions religious or spiritual beliefs, and who may choose not to claim any system of knowledge.
    iamuniversity.org/glossary/cv_glossarylist.php
  • One who holds the theory that God is unknown or unknowable
    www.innvista.com/culture/religion/diction.htm
  • Someone who claims that they do not know or are unable to know whether God exists.
    www.abdn.ac.uk/philosophy/guide/glossary.shtml
  • Agnosticism asserts no knowledge of gods and therefore concludes there are no reasons to believe in them or not to believe in them. An agnostic follows this credo and differs from the atheist who has developed an active belief that there are no gods. When it comes to the question of existence of deities, an agnostic will respond: I just don't know.
    designdynamics.org/dictionary.html
  • I would say I am ==== one who questions religious or spiritual beliefs, and who may choose not to claim any system of knowledge. Religion. I believe in God and He created us but not the way the bible says, nor any other Religion that has been or is now.

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