What about Lamech's "wound"?

by Schizm 53 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Schizm
    Schizm


    I found it interesting to note what H. C. Leupold wrote in his Exposition of Genesis. With reference to verses 23 and 24 of the Lamech account, he said:

    This portion caused commentators in days of old untold difficulties. Jamison [a Bible commentator, 1802-1880] reports that Origen [a theologian, writer, and teacher, 185?-254? C.E.] devoted two whole books of his Genesis commentary to these [two] verses, and finally rendered the verdict that they were inexplicable.

    Is it really true that the account regarding Lamech cannot be explained? Would God have put it in the Bible if there wasn't any way to understand it?

    .

  • IP_SEC
    IP_SEC
    Would God have put it in the Bible if there wasn't any way to understand it?

    Probably dog didnt have anything to do with what is or isnt in the bible.

  • Schizm
    Schizm
    Would God have put it in the Bible if there wasn't any way to understand it?
    Probably dog didnt have anything to do with what is or isnt in the bible.



    When I think of you and the attitude that you display, Matt, I think of the scripture that says: "Don't give what is holy to the dogs."

    My first words when starting this thread were:

    Would someone who believes in and respects the Bible as having been inspired by God like to attempt an explanation of this account regarding Lamech?

    Of course YOU were the first one to respond with a reply--a person who does NOT respect the Bible, nor even God himself.

    You seem to be a person who is literally eat up with hate, Matt.

    .

  • IP_SEC
    IP_SEC

    Ooops, My bad, sorry bout that schiz

  • Schizm
    Schizm


    Well, okay, it looks like there isn't any real interest in the subject of this thread.

    For that reason, I'll close it out with a final thought.

    Lamech's "wound" or "blow" was not the physical sort. In other words, he had not been physically struck by the young man whom he killed. The way in which the young man wounded Lamech (dealt him a blow) was that he raped his daughter (Naamah).

    Because of the apparent lack of interest, I won't bother to discuss the basis for my having arrived at that understanding.

    .

  • Schizm
    Schizm

    Here's what Insight On The Scriptures has to say on this subject:

    *** it-2 192 Lamech ***


    The poem that Lamech composed for his wives (Ge 4:23, 24) reflects the violent spirit of that day. Lamech’s poem ran: "Hear my voice, you wives of Lamech; give ear to my saying: A man I have killed for wounding me, yes, a young man for giving me a blow. If seven times Cain is to be avenged, then Lamech seventy times and seven." Evidently Lamech was presenting a case of self-defense, pleading that his act was not one of deliberate murder, like that of Cain. Lamech claimed that, in defending himself, he had killed the man who struck and wounded him. Therefore, his poem stood as a plea for immunity against anyone desiring to get revenge against him for killing his attacker.

    There are no less than 3 errors in that one paragraph.

    1. "The poem"? It wasn't a poem! It was simply an announcement whereby he informed his wives of what had happened.
    2. "the man who struck"? Not true! There was no altercation.
    3. "his attacker"? Not true! The young man never laid a hand on Lamech.

    .

  • IP_SEC
    IP_SEC

    The thread would have prolly been more successful if you had made your point in the beginning and asked for a discussion of that point. Instead you asked for an ambiguous discussion of the of the verses which unbeknownest to the rest of us would be climaxed by your revelation. No one can discuss your point unless you make it.

    Its kind of hard to pull off an Introduction/Suspense/Climax/Conclusion thread.

    Just a suggestion.

    Matt

  • RubaDub
    RubaDub

    "A man I have killed for wounding me,

    Yes, a young man for giving me a blow . "

    Ahh ... er ...ahh .... I see a lot of comments about what it "could" have meant .... but .... well ... isn't it pretty obvious that he may have been involved in an altercation with a gay person and well .... "defiled." ???

    I don't think we have to read into it more than what is says. Seem pretty obvious to me.

    Rub a Dub

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia
    "The poem"? It wasn't a poem! It was simply an announcement whereby he informed his wives of what had happened.

    It is a poem. Did you not read the post on the first page where I explained to you how it is poem? If it has the literary form of a poem, it is a poem. Because you are not reading it in the Hebrew, you are unable to appreciate this fact.

    "the man who struck"? Not true! There was no altercation.

    They are just stating what the text itself says...he says a young man "wounded" (l-pts'y) me and "welted" (l-chbrty) me. On what basis do you say this is not true? These two words occur together in Exodus 21:25 ("burn for burn, wound for wound [pts' ]", bruise for bruise [chbwrh]"), Proverbs 20:30 ("Blows [chbwrwt] and wounds [pts' ] cleanse away evil, and beatings [mkwt] purge the inmost being"), and Isaiah 1:6 ("From the sole of the foot all the way to the head there is nothing sound in it, only bruises [pts' ], welts [chbwrh], and raw wounds [mkh tryh], not closed up or bandaged". The use of these two words together clearly shows that physical injury is what is meant. Your suggestion that the word "blow" in Genesis 4:23 is merely emotional (by using the English expression "dealt a blow") is not supported by the Hebrew at all, which uses two distinct words of physical injury to describe what happened to Lamech.

    It looks like you have redefined the Hebrew word along the lines of an English expression, and then on that basis, you call the Insight article's reference to Lamech's injury an "error" tho that is plainly what the expression actually means.

    "his attacker"? Not true! The young man never laid a hand on Lamech.

    Again, you have not given any compelling reason to prefer a figurative bruising and welting over what is plainly stated in the poem (i.e. giving someone a physical welt or a bruise). How can you say "the young man never laid a hand on Lamech" when the text says this? Why are you so convinced of your preferred redefinition of the words that you say that the plain meaning is not possible at all?

    I would say tho that "attacker" goes beyond what is stated. The poem gives no background information and so we don't know who was the "attacker", if the young man "welted" Lamech in self-defense, etc.

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    More examples of these words:

    "Then he found another man and said, 'Please strike me (hkyny).' And the man struck him (ykhw), wounding (pts' ) him" (1 Kings 20:37).
    "Because of your wrath there is no health (mtm) in my body (b-shry); my bones (b-'tsmy) have no soundness because of my sin...My wounds (chbwrty) fester (nmqw) and stink (hb'yshw) because of my sinful folly" (Psalm 38:3-5).
    "The watchmen who make the rounds in the city found me, they struck me (hkwny) and wounded me (pts'wny), the guardsmen of the walls took away my shawl from me. (Song of Solomon 5:7).

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit