Some assistance and suggestions please: Email with my sister

by WinstonSmith 38 Replies latest members private

  • WinstonSmith
    WinstonSmith

    Hello everyone,

    I'm in need of some assistance, and I am hoping you might be able to help out with some suggestions. A little while ago in my diary thread, I mentioned that there might be some hope with helping my sister wake up. Things have just got real interesting.

    Here is some background:

    My sister and my brother in law have been married for just over ten years and from around two years after they got married have had issues. They have had on and off issues for a while, and recently things came to a head. After years of putting up with what equates to emotional abuse from my brother in law, she spoke up and said that she was not happy and that things had to change. My brother in law flipped things around and said she was the one emotionally abusing him. As a result of this, they asked the elders for help. The brothers spoke with them at length and offered them the usual “well if you read the bible and apply what you learn, things like this don’t happen”. Things were again left unresolved and were minimised by the elders. My brother in law continued to serve as a MS and both of them as regular pioneers. I have heard many similar stories like theirs over the years.

    The problems have of course continued. My sister freely admits to being far from blameless in the situation, but I also know that she is not a drama queen and not prone to making stuff up.

    She emailed me a few weeks back and said she wanted to talk to me about some ‘elder stuff’. We got on Chat and off we went. She explained that they had been back to the elders. My brother in law was allowed to speak to them alone, but he had to be in the room when my sister spoke to them (!!!???). They told her that there must be something else going on because they have been given all the advice available, and if they had been applying it there would be no issue (!!!). They were now questioning whether my brother in law should stay as a MS and if both of them could stay on as pioneers. They were going to speak with the CO as he was due for a visit.

    I said to her that she needs to remember that she is dealing with an old boys club, and to not expect anything favourable from any of them with regards to her. I explained a few things about how it works on ‘the inside’ as an elder and she was most grateful as what I said connected a few dots that she had been wondering about. She said it all seems so unfair and that no-one seems to be listening to her.

    She went out with the CO during his visit and he was asking her all sorts of questions. She said she didn’t feel comfortable talking about it because they were going door to door. The elders obviously talked about things with the CO as the following week they got called to another meeting with two elders. The brothers advised them that they were sending a recommendation to the WTS that they should keep their privileges. It was up to the WTS to make the call. If nothing comes back, they stay as they are. If a letter came back it would have a negative decision in it.

    My sisters reaction was “I just don’t get it. I don’t know how he can stay as a MS. But what would I know?” She then said “There is other stuff going on that I just can’t understand. Its making me feel raped in a whole new way. I just want to tell everyone to get stuffed!”

    This of course got raised my interest as this is the first time I have ever heard her talk like this. In my reply I reiterated the unfairness of it all. How there is a lot of things that go on that aren’t based on scriptures – like qualifications for pioneers. I asked when they said that they were going to review their qualifications to see if they could remain as pioneers, on what scripture containing qualifications for pioneering were they basing the review? I said having seen the organisation from the inside as an elder, it made me see a whole new side of things, a side that most are unaware of. I gave some examples of the unscriptural things that have been set up as rules – no sisters involved in binding the elders book, no beards, and no electronic devices on stage.

    I emphasised that things just didn’t make sense to me. Surely there are more important things to worry about than whether or not a brother has beard? I didn’t lay it on heavy, just posed things as questions as though they don’t make sense (because they don’t).

    She has replied and said that they have still not heard anything back and that she is finding it hard to cope. She is just trying to focus on her ministry and her bible students. She understands first hand the hurt, confusion and frustration. She then says:

    “Can I ask if you don’t mind, and don’t feel you have to answer me, do you think that Jehovahs Witnesses have the truth?”

    Dun dun dunnnnnn.

    I don’t believe that she is asking from an accusatory angle, but is motivated by some doubts she may be harbouring as a result of being shat on for years. She followed this question up with “Right now I am just trying to remind myself that it is not possible to have a perfect organisation. There are going to be wrong decisions, and surely Jehovah must look down and say “That’s not what I want!” His servants are in pain, and when this comes from the congregation, he must cringe.

    So. What do you think? I have formulated what I think is a careful reply which I will post later for your review and suggestions. The reply does not say anything directly and I have designed to be more of a rant / vent than a direct takedown of the organisation.

    I don’t think she is all the way there yet, but I think she is at a key crossroads.

    I would love to hear your thoughts on the story so far, and any ideas you think I should provide in my reply. I have prepared a reply, and will post it up in a moment.

    Many thanks to Listener for the idea of putting this in it's own thread.

    Thanks in advance.

    WS

  • WinstonSmith
    WinstonSmith

    Okay here is what I have as my reply...

    There is of course a preamble and some personal stuff at the end, but I haven't pasted that, just the main body:

    I think it sucks that you have just been left hanging like that. You should be given a clear answer so you can go on with your life. With things left up in the air, you will never truly have a settled feeling. You'll always feel like you are on tenterhooks. Please know that whatever happens, whatever eventuates, you will always have our love and support.

    It's funny you ask the question "Do you think Jehovah’s Witnesses have the truth?" Here is some more inside info for you: It's funny because this is one of the 'loyalty' questions that get asked by elders in a judicial committee when someone is up for apostasy. The other question that is asked is "Do you believe that the faithful and discreet slave is God's way of directing things on earth?" Both are loaded questions and the implications of answering them honestly can have devastating effects on anyone who has to answer them in front of a panel of elders. They are phrased in such a way that they require a yes or no answer. But sometimes life is not so black and white. If someone had some small questions, or even some big questions, they would have to answer honestly 'no'. To answer no to either of those questions means the end of them as a JW. The end of their relationship with their family. The end of being able to spend time with their friends. When the elders hear "no", then the case is closed in their minds. In fact even saying "Yes, but.." is taken as a no. I'm not saying this based on hearsay. I am basing this on experience.

    I think it is perfectly fine to ask questions. The truth should stand up to examination. Scrutiny should be welcomed. The Bereans were praised and recorded for all time at Acts 17:11 for being studious enough to check up on what Paul was teaching to make sure it was true. Sadly I can't see that this is the case today. As I have said before, what I see time and again is not the bible being pulled out, but the Shepherd the Flock book. Do you know what the nickname for that book is? Among certain ones I spent time with at a KM school, it was called "the disfellowshipping book" because about 80% of it focuses on the various situations that might come up, and how to deal with them.

    And how does one define "truth"? There is a dictionary definition of truth, but then we as JWs use this word from a slightly different angle. We use it as a catch-all for our beliefs. The reality is that this version of "truth" changes. What we believed a few years ago is quite different now. I'll give you an example:

    Recently the make up of the faithful and discreet slave has changed. It used to be that the FDS was all of the anointed as a group. Now this has changed to be "From 1919 on, there has always been a small group of anointed Christians at the world headquarters of Jehovah’s Witnesses. They have supervised our worldwide preaching work and have been directly involved in preparing and dispensing spiritual food. In recent years, that group has been closely identified with the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses." That is a quote from jw.org. Notice that it has only been from 1919. That means that Charles Taze Russell, is no longer considered to be part of the FDS.

    If, at some time in the last ten years you had said to people "CTR is not part of the FDS" you would have had your mental health questioned and had the crap kicked out of you by the elders. If you stuck to that idea, despite it being based on your honest belief as a result of your research, you would have been disfellowshipped.

    I'll give you an even better example:

    For many years organ transplants were considered to be fine. Then, in the 1960s they were equated with cannibalism. I kid you not. Look it up. Anyone who had a transplant after that was disfellowshipped for disobedience and, can you believe it, cannibalism. Then, a few years later, it was changed again so that organ transplants were again a choice for each individual to make. I wonder how many people got disfellowshipped in that period for having transplants? Do you think they all got a call once it again became ok to have a transplant to say "sorry we disfellowshipped you because you got a transplant. It's now okay to have one. Your disfellowshipping has been rescinded"? I wonder how many people died?

    I think people can be forgiven for struggling to keep up and being a human and asking questions as they try to find stable ground on which to build their faith. Jesus' disciples weren't afraid to ask questions. Thankfully Jehovah is the final judge and we render our account to him, and not to anyone else.

    It totally agree with you when you say that Jehovah must look down and facepalm at some decisions. What really bothers me is the pain and anguish that comes to many people as a result of these decisions. We have pressure put on people to get X amount of field service time. We have people like our friend who sought help and got smashed as a result. We have a policy (in the secret elders book) that can directly lead to a pedophile being unknown in a congregation and free to go from door to door and associate with families and kids. In a recent WT the brothers said that they don't have divine inspiration. Yet in other articles they call themselves God's channel or spirit led. I'm not exactly sure what the difference is to be honest. It's quite confusing. They say they don't have divine inspiration, but to question anything they say is taken as disobedience to God. We spend a lot of time pointing out the inconsistencies of other religions, when in actual fact, in some areas, we are not so different from them.

    The world is most definitely in a mess. Something needs to be done about it. The bible says that something will be done about it. MRS SMITH and I take great solace in just reading the scriptures. The "truth" is very simple. Love God, love your neighbour, treat others like you want to be treated. These are the three most important things that make us Christian. It is not about a thousand laws, and straining out of the gnat. It should be about love. Helping the flaxen wick. Feeling pity for those skinned and thrown about. Jesus did away with the Law and its myriad rules and replaced with a law written on our hearts. He replaced it with the simplicity of love and understanding.

    I've written and re-written all of this about 20 times because I want it to come out in the right way. I have seen a lot of things with my own eyes, and heard a lot of things with my own ears, that if they were known by the general congregation populace, would cause massive upheaval. It is a heavy burden to bear. It leaves a bad taste in your mouth. What has been seen cannot be unseen. One finds it hard to look at a brother on stage giving a talk about the kindness and compassion of Jesus knowing that this same guy has mentally smashed and punched the joy out of one of his own sheep (on more than one occasion and to more than one sheep).

    As a Christian, I try and look past these things. As you say, it is not possible to have a perfect organisation made up of imperfect people. But the things I am talking about are sadly not one off examples. Just in my own experience, I have seen ourselves get treated appallingly (EXAMPLE GIVEN THAT SHE IS VERY FAMILIAR WITH). I have seen you get treated terribly when you were unable to attend meetings a few years ago. I think about poor CLOSE FRIEND and what she had to go through. I think about how ANOTHER CLOSE FRIEND was treated on the way out. I think about the things I saw while serving as an elder. I think about our friend who got screwed by the Body after crying for help. I think about that sister in Mum’s congregation who was being beat up by her husband, but nothing was done about it. I think about your recent experience with the elders and the CO (the old boys club). The same things have been happening over many years to many people in many countries. We spend so much time and effort trying to make new recruits, but fail dismally on tending to the existing flock. Love is supposed to be our identifying mark, yet time and again I see people crushed and beaten down.

    There is just a lot that I don't 'get'. If I'm honest, there have always been things that I have never been able to reconcile in my mind. It's weird, and I can't put my finger on it. MRS SMITH is on exactly the same page in all this. This is the most honest I have ever been about this (apart from to MRS SMITH). I can count on less than one hand the number of people I would ever feel safe enough to talk about this to - and that is not how it should be right? Like you, we feel a bit like we just have to hunker down and focus on ourselves and making ourselves better people.

    Anyway, I have crapped on long enough. Hopefully none of this is too shocking for you. I don't think there is anything crazy crazy in there. Just a guy trying to figure out this thing called life. I really want to know what you mean when you say there is other stuff that you can't understand and makes you feel raped in a whole new way. I would honestly love to know how you honestly feel - with total confidentiality of course. As I said before, no matter what you say, it will always be in the strictest confidence and you will always have our complete support.

    My turn: Do you think Jehovah's Witnesses have the truth?

    The best thing any of us can do is read the bible, be regular in prayer and try our best to show love to all that cross our path. This I think is the essence of being a Christian. Like I said earlier, love God, love our neighbours, and treat other people like we want to be treated. Jehovah gave his Word to us for a reason. It alone should be enough to lead us and guide us, not a cold sticking to rules and procedures.

    So there it is...

    I would love to hear any feedback and suggestions that you may have. I have tried to couch things in such a way that if it was ever seen by anyone, I could honestly say "This was a private conversation with my sister. I haven't said anything anti-organisation. I've just voiced some questions that I have always wondered. I know we have to 'wait on Jehovah' and sometimes it's good to talk about it with close family."

    Of course it may all blow up in my face. If it does, maybe it will expedite Mrs Smith and I out faster and more painfully than we planned.

    Maybe it's worth the risk.

    WS

  • happy@last
    happy@last

    This is the bit that does it for me:

    It is not about a thousand laws, and straining out of the gnat. It should be about love. Helping the flaxen wick. Feeling pity for those skinned and thrown about. Jesus did away with the Law and its myriad rules and replaced with a law written on our hearts. He replaced it with the simplicity of love and understanding.

    The bit about the organ transplants may be relevant if you have firsthand experience with this, but not necessary in my opinion, as JWs always bring out the light getting brighter clause and believe the resurrection will sort this out!

  • WinstonSmith
    WinstonSmith

    Happy@last: Thank you for takng the time to read through that - there was a lot to go through! I appreciate your comments and feedback. I put in the example of the recent change because it is a freshie. I was tossing up whether to put in the transplant thing. I chose it specifically because it is an example of a flip flop. My sister and I grew up in the truth, and I had no idea about the transplant thing until I started digging. I am sure she doesn't know about this. It might be shocking enough to get her thinking. This was also a key thing in the process of Mrs Smith waking up.

    Thank you again for taking the time to read and respond. I will certainly take your feedback on board :-)

  • tornapart
    tornapart

    That's an excellent letter and if she is having doubts I'm sure she will open up to you. You didn't say too much that she would start seeing you as an 'apostate', just someone close that is having the same niggling doubts that she has.

    I'm trying a similar tack with my best friend. Trying to worm all her doubts out of her without giving myself away. Once they suspect you have become 'apostate' in your thinking the shutters would come down. If they feel you are 'on the same side' then they trust you. She just mentioned something to me the other day that I had said back in the summer and she even remembered where we were at the time I said it, so it must have sunk in. Also after our last conversation she said to me 'I don't want to say anything against the FDS... BUT......' That BUT was music to my ears. LOL

    Let us know how this develops Winston.

  • leavingwt
    leavingwt

    1. Do they have kids?

    2. If she learns the TATT, they're likely headed for divorce.

    3. Actually, the best thing she could do is read Ray's first book. (You must assist her with her irrational fear of apostate literature, while at the same time conveying to her that it must be read in secret, for now.)

    4. The example about organ transplants is good. (See Diane Wilson's book for many other issues that have directly affected women.)

    Good luck!

  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    Winston, would your sister consider getting some professional advice about her marriage ? she doesn't have to take the advice, but may find it helpful.

    Just talking things through with a non-judgemental, non-JW may be a big help.

  • suavojr
    suavojr

    Hello Winston,

    I know how it feels to be awake and not being able to help your loved ones to se TTATT , it is an uphill battle and it takes prayer and patience.(I AM ON THE SAME BOAT) I think your letter is kind and it does not come across as 'apostate', just don't forget she might not be ready to hear everything about the WT, let her express her discontent before you do.

    I personally changed my thinking when I read Ray's book CoC but it was a personal decision and no one recommended or told me to read it. (Just a note: it took me 20 years before getting the courage to read it) so go slow and she will let you know when she is ready for the next step (THE AWAKENING)

  • perfect1
    perfect1

    Winston Smith:

    while I do feel a little bit sorry for your sis it also irks me that she has given away all the power in her life to either her husband or the elders.

    She has involved other people, and that sets in motion a shit storm- since she is a woman and he is MS, most likely not in her favor.

    If she asks you point blank, what do you think, why not just answer her in the moment, succinctly.

    I think JWs too often write lenthy letters reasoning everything out.

    BY the time she reads your letter that window may have passed. She can put it down if it makes her uncomfortable. She has evidence against you.

    I think its better to be genuine when someone is on the verge of reality, they dont need logic, they need a quick confirmation.

  • Ding
    Ding

    Those are very encouraging signs.

    I would just say GO SLOWLY.

    It's really tempting in a situation like this to jump in with both feet and lay out every issue you have with the religion.

    That's usually counterproductive because it overwhelms the other person with things they're not ready for yet.

    The other person starts defending the organization and turns on you.

    Better, I think, to start by saying, "There are a lot of things that trouble me, too," and being a listening ear.

    Be a safe place to let HER open up and explore the doubts and questions SHE is having rather than to try to lay everything you've found out on her.

    Don't be surprised if she regresses some and regains some trust in the organization from time to time.

    The journey out is scary.

    Rarely is the progress steady because people don't lightly let go of the thing that has given their life meaning and purpose for so long.

    Be there for her and remember that she has to see things for herself.

    That doesn't mean you can't help her see things.

    It means you need to respect her by allowing her to process things in her own order and at her own pace.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit