Gee, Band on the Run, you work harder at not working than anybody I've ever heard of! Why don't you just post the phrase, "I do nothing." over and over. Why spend so much time explaining why you do nothing? You could have signed the petition a hundred times by now, since you have been explainig why you won't sign. Why don't you tell us about some activism you are involved in?
URGENT: Please Sign White House Petition to "Protect Americans from Dangerous Cults: Modify USC Title 26 § 501 Tax Exemption Requirements"
by ABibleStudent 130 Replies latest members politics
-
-
Band on the Run
I am working on the Obama campaign. Perhaps you did not some post stating that I am taking morphine by a pump for pain. I know this material very well. I am completely opposed to the petition and would not sign it with a gun to my head. It is completely American and illegal as far I know. An immense waste of time and resources that could be spent more successfully achieving the same goal.
I worked for the U.S. Senate and a large mutlinational corporate law firm. It is no one's business but I am on disability leave now. I have been a professional paid activist. I am what is called a "movement person." I have fought very hard for civil liberties, civil rights, and women's rights on the street and in academia. NYU Law awarded me a full merit scholarship to promote my activism. I have more than paid my dues. Morever, I have sat in secret strategy meetings for the ACLU and NOW.
I never thought I would do corporate law but the skills carry over. My love of Manhattan is much stronger than my love of DC. Most upper tier lawyers in NY rotate down to DC and back. The drawback to political activism is that the people are not as bright or sophisticated as most on Wall St. So I have jumped around. Wall St. is consistently bright and sophisticated. DC has very bright people but a lot of civil servants who could not hold down a job in private industry. It depends on which politician with whom you ally yourself. There is minimal culture in DC compared to NY.
I attend moot court exercises the day before Supreme Court arguments.
I will not dumb down here. Attack my content not me. Personal attacks show that you cannot refute the content. I am an expert in certan fields. Separation of church and state is one of my few areas of expertise. Most Americans are ignorant of the area. If you want to hold your own with the big power brokers, you need to learn the basics of what they know. Justice only exists when both sides have the same amount of resources.
It is always attack me. Discuss where I incorrectly analysed Supreme Court jurisprudence or the historical background. I used to march in the street and scream slogans. The fervor of speakers inspired me. Little was accomplished. I like hanging with the big boys who bring home a win.
-
ABibleStudent
Band on the Run - Again, I am making conservative statements but individuals must assume responsibility. Dictatorships establish what religions are permissible or not. Hundreds of thousands of Europeans died when dangerousness was defined by government. Criminal conduct can be punished under existing law.
Hi Band on the Run, Although I agree with you that individuals must assume responsibility for their actions (or lack of action), I disagree with you about your conclusions and assert that there are special circumstances that should apply to individuals, who have been raised in an environment like the WTBTS started to create in the 1950’s. Any law inspired by this petition will allow individuals who are members of Dangerous Organizations (formerly referred to as Dangerous Cults) to become responsible and with less emotional damage to their lives.
I feel that this petition will provide a proactive and cost effective way to help people to help themselves without charging victims of behavioral control with crimes. Instead of charging elders and ministerial servants with not complying with Victoria’s Child Protection laws, Steven Unthank tried to prosecute the GB and men responsible for the JWs’ behavior. If the root cause is that victims were under behavioral control of an organizations’ policies, I would rather force leaders of an organization to choose between continuing those policies and practices, or losing the organizations’ tax exempt status. Why burden the legal system with charging numerous victims of behavioral control with crimes that are promoted by an organization?
Have you read Steve Hassan’s Book “Combatting Cult Mind Control”? I use to defend the WTBTS as not being a cult to a friend until I read Steve Hassan’s book, because I did not have enough information to justify labeling the WTBTS as a dangerous organization (formerly referred to as a dangerous cult). Steve Hassan did a good job of defining what is a dangerous cult in his book, and admitted that he wished that he knew of a different label to use that did not have a religious connotation.
As I wrote in the thread http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/scandals/225068/3/New-US-Government-Petition-re-Cults-and-Tax-Exemptions , I would rather have a dialog with you about ways to protect both victims of dangerous organizations, and the non-dangerous organizations that do not intimidate their members. I understand that you have strong emotional views about this subject, possibly because of the hard-time served by your JW relatives. I'm sorry that your relatives served that hard-time. But, at least your relatives could chose not to follow the WTBTS with less consequences than today's JWs.
Could today's JWs chose to accept whole blood transfusions to save their lives or their child's life without being shunned by spiritually strong JW friends and family? What a choice: chose a blood transfusion to save your life and never talk with your JW friends and family again until the WTBTS proclaims "new light".
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
-
Band on the Run
First, I want everyone who posts here to pubicly post their job title, employer, salary, investment income, assets, and liabilities. Phone numbers and telephone numbers should be included. Since we are violating privacy, I want home addresses with photos of homes, trailers, accompanied with photos of any spouses, lovers, and pets. I want to know where the children attend school and where they play, complete with map routes.
If I were a fraud, I could not know what I know. So you disagree with me. If you were educated in civics, it might bother me a tad. Why should I care whether you agree. This is not a formal debate at the Oxford Union.
It infuriates me that I break my privacy a bit b/c I needed to vent that my agonizing pain has popped out of control. Is a morphine pump necessity not a an exception to the always work rule. I posted past work experience. People who know zero accused me of lying. Look, I worked very hard to finish my education. Yes, I received academic scholarships. I was fortunate but I studied until 2 or 3 am on many weekends. I chose the Ivy League. They chose me. It was mutual. It scared the living daylights out of me. I was the JW KH illiterate girl. No one ever handed me anything on a silver platter. I have led an exciting life. Most of it can be contributed to the accident that I was born and raise in the NYC suburbs and chose to live in NY permantly. I would not have any exposure to so much if I did not run to Manhattan. Nothing exciting ever happened in Jersey. Well, the Newark riots.
I will not apologize for who I am and what I know. Personal attacks are a cheap shot when one cannot compete on the merits of the argument. Am I not allowed to admit that I have studied this area extensively for thirty years. My hope was to convince some people that our First Amendment law is not what they think. I had no personal inkling until after law school when forced to research for work. Don't agree with me. It is a free country.
How anyone could read the cases I cited, even without a law school education, and persist in such a view boggles my mind. Hey, one can lead a horse to water.... Law and government are not automatic remedies. I engaged in this thread so it was at my risk. Hitler would not agree with me. Henry VIII would not agree with me. Popes would not agree with me. No, I will pretend that I am ignorant.
P.S. There is no need for unanimous Supreme Court decisions. All one needs for resolution is a majority or plurality agreeing on the order. There are nine justices for a reason. These cases always run 5/4. All the justices joining a single opinion in a complicated case. You are a dreamer. We should be taught these fundamentals in secondary school. I did not wake up one day and magically know this material. Sign your petition. Don't hold your breath, though, is good advice.
I see no reason why high school students cannot know the basics of this material. My angst is not with you as much as our educational system which supports a class system.
-
ABibleStudent
Band on the Run - First, I want everyone who posts here to pubicly post their job title, employer, salary, investment income, assets, and liabilities. Phone numbers and telephone numbers should be included. Since we are violating privacy, I want home addresses with photos of homes, trailers, accompanied with photos of any spouses, lovers, and pets. I want to know where the children attend school and where they play, complete with map routes.
Hi Band on the Run, Are you feeling ok? What are potential side-effects of using a morphine pump? If reading this thread (and similar threads) upsets you emotionally, maybe it would be better for you from a health perspective to not read this type of thread.
Your last post is very confusing. As an officer of the court, why would you request that everyone post their personal information on a public forum? If you want to write about your personal life that is your right. To request that others disclose their personal information to write on this thread is irrelevant to posting on this thread, nor is it required to comment on this thread.
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
-
Band on the Run
Well, I am a woman so no matter what I do know on a specific area, it does not matter b/c I am woman and must err. A man can never be misguided.
Further invasion of privacy from me is ordered. Sadly, this was never a dialogue. The majority of posters disagreed with you. I was not the lone voice of reason. Sign your petition. I don't care. Your repartee is lacking. Read the comment before your recent posts.
You are not James Woods or Botchtower. There is no sport.
-
ABibleStudent
Band on the Run - Well, I am a woman so no matter what I do know on a specific area, it does not matter b/c I am woman and must err. A man can never be misguided.
Further invasion of privacy from me is ordered. Sadly, this was never a dialogue. The majority of posters disagreed with you. I was not the lone voice of reason. Sign your petition. I don't care. Your repartee is lacking. Read the comment before your recent posts.
Hi Band on the Run, Do you feel that I'm discounting your comments because you are a woman? I was never baptised a JW and I feel that JW men are very insecure so they put women down.
I do question your comments for the following reasons:
- Is your medication affecting your writing and logic development in your posts?
- Are your personal experiences being a JW and having JW relatives that did hard time affecting your perceptions about the White House petition?
- Why don't you answer clarifying questions that I ask you? Instead of answering my questions, you seem to make accusations to avoid answering the questions.
- Why do you make generalizations or statements in your posts, such as you did in the following quote box? Since Supreme Court decisions are decided by 5 or more Justices in the majority and 4 or fewer Justices dissenting, why make the statement in bold in the quote box? Were you trying to intimidate me?
Band on the Run - See any American lawyer for a consultation and you will hear what I wrote. I dare you.
A dialogue between people is based on trust and respect. I have tried to show you respect, but I feel from your comments that you are not showing me respect.
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
-
JeffT
Robert, although many, if not most of us on this board have read Hassan, we don't need to. We LIVED it. No one is arguing that the WTBS's treatment of its members is justifiable, or morally correct. You can stop throwing one man's books at us like they are holy writ. We get it. A few months ago I wrote my own article about it (its on freeminds).
What you refuse to even attempt to understand is that your proposed solution scares some of us more than one whacked out religion.
I have tried to show you respect,
No you haven't, and I think you owe her an apology.
-
apostatethunder
The bottom line here is: if a religion/cult/group/organization, whatever, uses lies, manipulation, subvert mind control techniques, explicit or implicit blackmail, to gain and keep people subjugated to them, does not allow freedom of speech or freedom of individual conscience, they stop doing a service and they start being a public issue, and certainly shouldn't be benefiting from tax exemptions as if they were a charity.
When jws come to your door they tell you the first lie, that they are not there to change your religion but only to teach you about the bible, they target vulnerable individuals, and say it so at the meetings, "that's why we keep calling back, people's circunstances may change, and they may be more receptive next time....", everybody has the right to believe whatever they want to believe, but not to coerce other people, directly or indirectly, into following them at the expense of their own wellbeing. Everybody has the right to his good name, and this organization doesn't respect that in whoever dares to contradict any of its ridiculous doctrines. Religions have a huge amount of power over people, and if a religion proves to be damaging for the people that comes in contact with them, this is something that needs to be addressed as it would be any business that scams people, or any group dedicated to fraud. This are crimes.
This organization vulnerates individual rights, and individual freedoms that should be sacred. Other religions don't need to resort to manipulation and mind control to have followers.
-
cofty
Other religions don't need to resort to manipulation and mind control to have followers.
What is the provisional promise of heaven if not manipulation and mind-control?
The prospect of civil servants choosing their favourite religions for special privledges is not a happy one.