Very angry...

by Odrade 23 Replies latest members private

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  Odrade

  How do you differentiate between anger at your parents for the dumb parental stuff they do, and anger at the WT stuff they do? I was raised in the Borg, and now that we're trying to do the "fade," I wonder what I'm trying to preserve. My parents are very controlling, but not outright abusive and never have been. I really have no way to know how much is just them, and how much of it is the way the WT has taught them to parent.

  I'm so angry, and have been for years, even before I came to realize the degree of mind-control from the Organization. It seems that most of my decisions in my adult life have been either out of rebellion against their authority, or an attempt to pacify them in their demands on me. I always think about fallout from them whenever I have a decision to make. Nothing has ever been good enough.

  Now we are starting to really feel the pressure. My dad calls often and talks on about normal stuff, but with this sad sighing tone of voice. In fact he frequently just stops talking mid-sentence and gives this huge sigh. My mom sends letters like "What did we do wrong? did we not listen to you and now this is why you're rejecting Jehovah. It makes me cry when you are not at the meetings. I don't like to cry. Why won't you come back? Is it something we did to you?" on and on like that.

  On the one hand, I know they love the Borg, and are so brainwashed they are afraid I will die at Armaggedon. On the other hand, they are so damn manipulative, and always have been. They took everything to the extreme growing up. I mean, we couldn't even watch married people kiss on a sitcom. Words we couldn't say included "weird" "butt" and other similar things. We didn't have TV most of the time because some brother at bethel says it's Satan's eyeball. I couldn't talk to a boy on the phone--when I was 18--cause that could "lead to things..." It wasn't just Dubbie stuff they controlled either. EVERYTHING.

  At this point, sometimes I wish I could just tell anyone and everyone how I feel about the "Truth." In some ways it would be such a relief to never have contact with them again. (They are such good J-Dubs they would shun me, all the while doing the "poor me, poor me" routine.) But I don't want to be making decisions based on anger at them anymore.

  Trouble is figuring out the Dub things I'm angry at, and getting over them. As opposed to the parental issues that I'll probably never change, and not letting those dynamics cause me to make rash destructive choices.

  Just had to get that out there.

  Odrade
• 

  pettygrudger

  I can so relate to these sentiments Odrade - I too had a very controlling mother whereas everything I did, no matter what i did, it wasn't either enough or good enough.

  Upon my exit from the Borg, I was accused of causing a subsequent miscarriage to her due to the sadness I had caused, and every mistake since childhood I had made (like saying cuss words 2x & stealing a lollipop from a store at the age of 5) were thrown at me as "indications". And the guilt - my lord. "What did I do to cause this? Was I not a good enough mother? yadda yadda yadda.

  What I realized - is that she has self-worth problems, to top off a pretty narcissistic personality to make everything about HER!

  Still deal with those issues myself, and its only been 18 years or so now, so I too would be interested in others input. Was it because of the Borg, or was she drawn to the Borg because of who she already was?

  Hopefully, we'll both be able to put this puppy to rest soon!
• 

  Lady Lee

  wow It isn't easy separating the two especially if they have been JWs since you were tiny or before.

  For those of us who knew our parents before they became JWs it can be a bit easier to separate the two. Some folks say their parents were worse, others say their parents were better. Mine uses the JWs to support her miserable parenting.

  I think for me it has been a matter of seeing the person they are - JW or not. If they left the JW would they be the same? Would they still be manipulative and demanding? Would they soften their demands on you? Would they stop trying to make you feel guilty about how you live your life?

  Do they behave this way to others? (situations might differ slightly but is thsi part of who they are regardless of who they are talking to?)

  Being angry can be good if it is productive. But if you stay stuck you will never be able to move on with your life. Going back and forth between anger and trying to pleas ethem gets you nowhere. There is a time and place for anger. It is important but don't stay stuck there.

  You might want to read this too. Some people say it helped them

  Using your anger to make positive changes

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/53831/1.ashx
• 

  little witch

  Odrade,

  I am sooo glad you brought this question to light. Not that I can be of help, because I am struggling with it too. So, well, I guess I just want you to know that you are not alone with such an important issue.

  Petty, I hear you too, and am very interested in how you deal with this.

  Right now, I am at the point that I understand that a parents believing is from brainwashing, etc. And I chalk it up to a weakness. But that is as far as I can get.

  I did suffer neglect and abuse. I was only two years old. My Mother had just died. I depended on the only woman I knew who was my (step) mom.

  She knew enough to treat her own two daughters in a compationate way. But not me my sister, or my brother.

  She never abused her own. So she must have knew right from wrong at the time.

  Now she makes some lame attempts to contact me in her old age, seeking some sort of forgiveness, without discussion of the past.........

  I guess due to my own circumstances, I hold her more responsible.

  Another thing, I was 13 when I finally had had enough of watchtower malarky, and went to the freakin library, and found out the whole story about the wt. So why couldnt she?

  So, in answer to your question, I hold the parents more responsible.

  I am a parent (of four kids).

  We have the internet, for example, and there is pornography on the net. It is my responsibility to keep my kids protected and safe. I use it for my needs, like here at JWD, but I still watch out for my kids and protect them.

  What I mean is, the weakness that said parent shows is, unacceptable to me.. It involves a catastrophic failure, and I cant seem to pass the buck passed there.

  Or, in a legal sense, The tower owed me no standard of care, my parents did...

  I am sorry to ramble on like this..........but like I said, it is something that has been on my mind alot lately, and I am trying to get passed it...Thanks..

  Again, welcome to the board!
• 

  gambit

  Odrade --

  The best method of working through this issue that I have discovered is this site. I only found this place a month ago and it has helped tremendously in that struggle. By reading threads of the past two years, a few patterns emerged that I discussed with my therapist and it was enlightening to both of us.

  I have 2 older brothers, that got out at 18, who swore for years that it was the borg that f*kd them and their lives up. My younger sister, who is still in, swears it was the alcoholism and the way it was taught in our house. I was on the borg side for 20 years, but finally opened myself up to understanding the impact of parents in general and how they try to show ** love **, parents and alcoholism (classifying myself as an ACOA), dysfunctional relationships in general (Co-Dependency, Emotional Blackmail), also, as petty mentioned, narcissism (along with a whole host of other personality disorders), and finally, most recently reading Combatting Mind Control...

  I'm starting to believe I could waiver back and forth on some issues forever. It is next to impossible to understand the underlying cause of someones alcoholism, or any addiction/compulsion until the addictive agent is removed. I feel it's the same with those in the borg.

  I do believe that it takes certain underlying personality traits/dysfunctions/handicaps to 1) Allow elders to make profound decisions for your childrens welfare. 2) Shun your own children because they don't believe the way you do. 3) Lead double lifes (emotionally dishonest even with "loved" ones)... and so on... I am beginning to think of these issues as belonging to people with an arrested development of their own. This theory leads right to all the "control" issues. And when they are "out of control", they have a "superior authority" direct them...

  In my discussions with my therapist, his position is -- They weren't really parents. They were a couple: husband and wife; they were providers: Mom and Dad; they were people: Man and Woman; but they weren't really parents. They let the religion "parent" you... I agree with him in the context of my life.

  Your asking a pretty deep question... trying to answer this question has caused extreme anger in me... Take it slow. I've already said things to my sister that I wish I could unsay... I am going to go back to journaling my feelings before I express them, in this area of life, to give me time to understand the impact and/or value of expressing myself.

  Welcome Odrade

  gambit -- I'm glad you asked, cuz I didn't know how to.
• 

  Ravyn

  I have come to understand my parents were just inadequate parents. However the Borg enabled them to be so. My parents would have sooner or later found something similar to JWs if they had not found them, because my parents were needy, addictive, controlling, narcisistic, and co-dependent. That does not mean I don't blame the Borg. It could have been a force for good in the lives of so many hurting people, but it was not. And I believe the ones in charge know this and play on it to their own benefit producing generations of codependent victims and martyrs to support the machine.

  Ravyn
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  little witch

  Gosh, Gambit...

  How profound...

  Note to self........seek a good therapist....LOL

  Really, though, you have hit on what has been eating at me, and I couldnt put into words. Thankyou for your input, I appreciate it.
• 

  Odrade

  thanks for the input guys. I guess in more rational moments I realize that some of these issues would have been there regardless of our involvement with WT. I swing back and forth from blaming my parents for every negative emotion or destructive impulse, to blaming the WTS for making them act that way, thereby letting them off the hook. Clearly things are somewhere in the middle, but I can't see where because I'm so mad.

  petty:

  like saying cuss words 2x & stealing a lollipop from a store at the age of 5) were thrown at me as "indications". And the guilt - my lord. "What did I do to cause this? Was I not a good enough mother?

  I'm blamed for a nervous breakdown, among other stuff. And it sounds like we were both really good girls. You know, I did everything that was asked of me and more, but it was never good enough. When I reached my spiritual goals, especially if I made them early, they always said it was because I wasn't giving my all. I made it too easy. So that was about religion. But they did the same thing with regular stuff. If I did a chore, there was always something wrong with the way it was done. So that clearly wasn't WT, but their own issue. It all gets mixed up in my mind though.

  Lady Lee:

  I think for me it has been a matter of seeing the person they are - JW or not

  I don't know if I'm even capable of doing that. The only thing I can do is look at their parents to arrive at conclusions. But lots of people break out of the cycle of dysfunctional parenting, so there again, I have nothing to compare to. JWism is all I've ever known, though they are adult converts. I have no idea in reality how they might have been otherwise. With others... I have never seen them act natural with any other than us (their kids.) My mother even has a special voice she uses with everyone except us. Creepy.

  Gambit: you said

  They let the religion "parent" you...

  I've truly never thought of it that way, but I know from the time I was about 4-5 years old, I was pointedly taught. Many of my memories revolved around learning scriptures, studying books, learning stories, memorizing the books of the bible.... what makes very hard to look back and remember, is that my parents, especially my dad, could be really good parents. Teaching us about outdoors, taking fun trips and outings, having crafts. But somehow so many of these things turned into object lessons. I wish I could have experienced being a kid without all the other constant"inculcating."

  I think that for most people the Organization can not turn you into something you are not. If you would have been a good parent before the WTS is involved, you probably would have still been if you are a Witness. If you would have been a controlling and deprecating parent outside, well all the WTS does is give you additional ammunition to use against your kids.

  Some days I'm so angry at them, and some days I WANT to blame it all on the organization's meddlesome ways. I never can quite come to it though. I don't know. It's something I'm working through, it's just been so long, and I've just been reading so many things here where people are so bitter. I admit I feel quite a bit of that bitterness too. I just want to put the blame where it belongs though and forget about the rest. I can't change how I was raised, and it's been so long anyways, it's time I find a way to move past it so I don't have these angry days so often.
• 

  avishai

  My parents are very controlling, but not outright abusive and never have been

  Oh yeah? I've been thru both, had the living shit kicked out of me by a parent, out of the borg, due largely to me, who is still struggling with issues of power & control. also been beat up pysically by others, including a schizophrenic stepfather. The control is far wors, imho. Odrade, look back to dune, where did the Bene gesserit fail w Jessica? Power & control over love. It really does F you up, Dubs or not.
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  Odrade

  Absolutely, I think that's what struck such a note with me in the Dune series is the sublimation of real love (or any genuine emotion) by an Organization. Mind control can wipe out even the most human of impulses, but it does need to take advantage of existing weaknesses. Extreme structure itself can become a weakness.