my deconversion story-special interest to Dansk

by Ravyn 18 Replies latest members private

  • Ravyn
    Ravyn

    Doctrinal deconversion:(in the form of a letter I wrote to my father--Dansk notice the references to the Greek Interlinear...)

    Dear Dad,

    The religion that I grew up with, with you is not the religion promoted by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society-and it never was. My whole life with you, you taught me 'truths' that WTBS did not hold, telling me not to share them with others at the Hall because not everyone was 'ready' for the 'truth'. The very idea that you are of the anointed is against their dogma. I spent 15 years as a pioneer, put in more hours in field service than anyone else in my family, and I can tell you that what WTBS teaches and believes is not what you taught me to believe. The reason I left was because my conscience could no longer tolerate the corruption and abuse of that group. You are living in a fantasy world if you think the way you believe and the way you live(I am speaking of not actively being involved in the field service--not anything personal)are acceptable to them!

    I believe in what you taught me about God. I have not left the Truth. At this point in my life I do not even consider myself Christian.

    Now you may feel that you spent more time deeply involved in the inner workings as an elder, but that was a long time ago. Things have changed since then, and you are no longer in the loop. And if you remember correctly you were always on the edge anyway--not exactly a team player. I started seeing some dangerous patterns in 1994 with WTBS. Then in 1996-7 I was personally asked by A WTBS attorney to lie in court to cover up a scandal at Bethel. I can give you as many details as you wish to know including names and dates---but I never thought you cared to know about it. I spent 23 years involved in WTBS with you, and another 11 involved with them without you. It was not my years with you that decided my leaving. Did you know that in 1985 they changed the Baptism questions? I didn't until I did some research. When I got baptized I made a vow to Jehovah, Jesus, and to follow the leadings of Holy Spirit. In 1985 they changed that to following the instructions of WTBS. I did not make a vow to an organization. I made a vow to God, His Son and the Holy Spirit's leadings IN MY LIFE.

    If there was one single thing that took me out, it was a careful study(with no ulterior motive--as it was something I just came upon accidentally) of Revelation 7: 9 and 11 in the WTBS' own Kingdom Interlinear. Briefly, in verse 9 it is talking about the Great Crowd, and in verse 11 it is talking about the angels. Now unless the angels are going to be on the Earth, the Great Crowd is in Heaven. The Greek word that identifies where these two groups are is exactly the same. There is not degrees of 'before the throne' indicated here, nor does the Greek word used support that stretch of a theory(for this I spoke with a professor of ancient languages at Harvard). There are other Greek words that could have been used to differentiate a different place, but that is not how the inspired writer wrote it. It says that the angels, in the circle of throne-Heaven, will worship in the same place as the Great Crowd-who came OUT of the Earth--and that place is before the throne. This is not talking about the 144,000. Verse 14 reiterates the place where the Great Crowd are, using the phrase again-and adds the phrase 'in the divine habitation of him'---so now WTBS would have us believe that not only do the angels come down to the Earth to worship but that God himself lives here? I know they explain it that his tent will spread over the Earth---but that is not what the SCRIPTURE says. The scripture says that the Great Crowd will join him in his tent. No where does it indicate that this tent will be on Earth. No where. And the logic that they use to say that his tent will be extended to the Earth is flawed logic, making scripture fit WTBS' own dogma. THAT is criminal. To manipulate the Word of God in order to cover your own butts! It sickens me.

    So I fell in with no 'apostates' or read no 'forbidden' books. It was the WTBS' own literature that took me out. I did not forsake the Truth. The Truth set me free. And I decided this on December 17, 1995. A year and a half before I ever met Lee. He had nothing to do with it.

    Now as far as my Church wedding which is what I am assuming stimulated this email from you, can you blame me? I planned my wedding since I was 6 years old. WTBS took away my youth, my prospects for marriage and a family ((I had a tubal ligation done in 1994 on the 'strong' advice of an elder(I was told if I got married and had a baby I would be removed as a pioneer) who was trying to match me up with a brother who did not want children--of course after the surgery the brother moved away never to be heard of again!)) Lee and I had a beautiful pagan wedding on a beach at midnight with a few close friends, but it was not how either of us ever pictured a wedding. We wanted photographs and cake and all the stuff everyone else gets. It was a first wedding for both of us. So I did what I had to do and we had our wedding. It was lovely, but bitter sweet, knowing that it was 20 years too late and none of my family cared enough to be there. So chalk up yet another one for WTBS.

    If you were not guilty of the so-called 'sin' you were disfellowshipped for, as you explained to me that Jehovah can judge the extenuating circumstamces, then blame the WTBS for causing this rift in our relationship too. I was not allowed to talk to you for how long? 8 years or more? On the penalty of my being removed as a pioneer--that is what I was repeatedly told. Do you know how it ripped me up to hear your voice when you called to tell me about Jeremy's suicide and not be able to even give you a hug? Not get to know Ruth or Matthew? And I wrote the WTBS asking advice on how to deal with family relationships under the circumstances, I pleaded with them, and was flat out told that I could not have anything to do with you period. YOU were considered apostate by every congregation I attended. The letters I got back from WTBS forbid me to even PRAY for you! But you never knew that because when you did come back I did not want to hurt your feelings or undermine your supposedly weak faith(their words not mine). So Dad you just don't know what I put up with from them in those 11 years. I have tried to put it behind me. But now I have a hard time finding any solace in faith. The mention of the name Jehovah is painful to me. And I have studied and studied scripture and theology and I just can't get past the idea that maybe the whole Christian thing was just a way to enslave people from the beginning.

    Whatever Russell had, Rutherford lost. Same with the Mormons, Joseph Smith had a rare spirituality, but Brigham Young turned it into a business enterprise. The first Christian Church, whether anyone likes it or not was called Catholic. I think it had something unique until it became the political pawn of Constantine, and then with the final chapters of the Roman Empire, Christianity went into hiding with the fanatics and the extremists. I have read many Gnostic texts and I find none of them in contradiction of the Bible Canons, but in great contradiction of Church teaching. The thing is, I don't identify with the Bible as a holy book or the God of the Bible as my God. I am not Jewish. I don't want to be Jewish. It is not my culture or inheritance. I don't belong. I think maybe you can empathize with the feeling of not belonging...

    Religion is such a small limited piece of spirituality for humans. The world is such a bigger place than cults would have you believe. The Universe belongs to everyone. Truth is relative here on Earth. And the idea that there is only one secret way and only one elite group of people practicing it, is American Protestant Fundamentalism at its most dangerous. It is trap.

    Sincerely,

    Ravyn

    Emotional Deconversion:(no names have been changed because there are no innocents to protect!)

    this is a long story.....

    In 1993 I was being treated for my lupus by a homeopath and seeing a therapist for my dysfunctional childhood--both of which were disapproved of by the JWs. But I did them anyway. The in 1994 I helped a friend leave and abusive husband and move across country with her three kids, and I followed shortly afterward(I had planned on the move--she was an unseen complication at the last minute). I had been a missionary living with a sister missionary for 14 years at this time. The sister I lived with was named Meredith. She had also been my nurse when i was very sick, but as I got into a remission she started to get emotionally ill herself. Sometimes I think it was because of all the pressure from the congregation and the fact that I was changing and she was somehow losing what she saw as an advantage--she was a very jealous and competitive person(the oldest of 5 girls!). So anyway she was DXd with bipolar disorder and put on some havey duty meds. The next year-1995- I lost 100 pounds, and we decided to take on two troubled teens(brother and sister) as foster kids who's mother happened to be in our new congregation. BIG MISTAKE. I went thru the training by the state, we were approved, yada yada yada, but the congregation saw this as an opportunity to get around the law by allowing the mother access to the kids at the Kingdom Hall that she was denied otherwise. It got so bad that I offered to move to another Hall while I had the kids. But no, the mother caused so much scandal that not only did I lose the kids(the integrity of my home was jeaopardized) but Iwas also accused of disobeying the elders and was removed as a missionary after 15 years of faithful service. I was devastated. That was December 17, 1995 in Brattleboro, Vermont. Meanwhile, Meredith is freaking out being so far from her family(she had been away from them for 12 years as a missionary, and she was separated from a husband-against JW policy-that whole time also). She also started spending money out of my accounts and using my credit cards, and not paying bills I thought she was paying. When you live with someone for 12 years--you just don't think such a thing could happen-but it did. It took me about 6 months to figure it out. My friend with the three kids who fled her husband died of a rare heart condition(PPH) brought on by years of abuse. She was 27, her youngest was 18 months. I nursed a woman who died of a brain cancer until her death for the congregation, Doris. Then one day I was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    I went to visit 'bethel' farm where Watchtower prints the magazines etc. I went off the tour to the little private graveyard and saw a fresh grave with a name on it I knew. I asked about it and was told the young man died of an aneurysm. I used to babysit this kid in Georgia when Iwas a teen ager. So I wrote his mother a sympathy letter.

    A month later I was subpoenaed to appear in court AGAINST the Watchtower. It seems that Jason died from a suicide and Watchtower was trying to cover it up because it was in response to a gay affair with one of the governing body memebers('apostles')and to keep the parents from getting an autopsy they had exhumed the body and had it cremated and were claiming the grave never existed. BUT--I saw the garve and wrote a letter saying I saw it on such and such date, etc...

    Waiting in the motel room for the trial the next day I was visited by legal reps for Watchtower asking me to lie. I asked them what they would do for me if I was put in jail for perjury, they said they could not do anything since they were not even supposed to be there talking to me. so I told them I would not lie.

    Meredith had a crisis that spring and rather than try to work out how we could divide the household(after 12 yrs together it was nearly a divorce!) she freaked and had her father come out to get her with a trailer. I made some phone calls and a friend from Seattle told me he had a job for me If I wanted to come back.(It did not work out and I found myself in a shelter for about 10 days.) I was supposed to leave the day after her father arrived, but he was late. So I left before he got there.

    About 3 weeks later in Seattle my realestate agent calls me and tells me she changed the locks because 'those church people' were taking everything out of my house. They stripped me to the bone. It seems that after Meredith lied to her father and told him I was coming later to California to live with them too(hence the reason why she was taking all my furniture) she told the congregation to come in and take waht was left. I called the elders and told them that I did not authorize anyone to take any of my stuff and they basically said 'too late now' and told me I could not sue my brothers and sisters.

    I went down to CA and had it out with Meredith. To their credit, her parents did not have a clue and tried there best to make it up to me. I lived with them for 6 months while I planned my physical escape. I took care of her dying grampa. Meredith started talking to her estranged husband and when he told her that he did not want to be a JW anymore, at which point she said she could never live with an apostate--so he hung himself. they would not even allow him to have a funeral in the Kingdom Hall. And now that she was 'free' she started dating in earnest.

    My uncle died and my aunt sent me some insurance money to get me back on the east coast. I met a guy, Ian, from Boston online and we had a brief cyber fling before he offered me a place to live since he was divorcing and needed a room mate to help pay the rent on his condo. I checked him out, met his parents over the phone--even talked to his X. It was not a romantic thing. But his friend, Lee, picked me up at the airport.

    Lee's parents lived in the condo across the hall. Lee worked nights and came over ever morning for breakfast.

    Lee was pagan but cradle catholic. We were married 6 months later and still are(5 1/2 yrs now). Ian is remarried now with two kids.

    So it took a murder,fraud, theft, a trial for wrongful death, and a suicide to get me out of JWs.

    When I was finally out and away from JWs and I was able to actually see the lies in their dogma--I was shocked and disgusted and never regretted walking away from them for a single moment. Ian's parents were big time UUs and professors at Brown and Harvard, and they loved me. So I got to read books and look at files and microfiche and basically convince myself that it did not matter a rat's a$$ what JWs did to xtianity since it was all a load of total $hit anyway!

    Ravyn Giuliani

  • DanTheMan
    DanTheMan

    THAT is one heck of a leaving JW's story

  • Gamaliel
    Gamaliel

    ((((((((((((Ravyn)))))))))))

  • nightwarrior
    nightwarrior

    Ravyn

    Your story has left me reeling.... but I am so glad that you have the strength of character to share it with us.

    Thank you so much.

    (((((((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))))))))

    Mrs Nightwarrior

  • Country Girl
    Country Girl

    What a disaster! Glad you got out of that mess. Whatever happened in the wrongful death suit?

    Country Girl

  • Ravyn
    Ravyn

    country girl--the parents lost the suit. funny thing, when I spoke with Mr. Greenberg at NBC when they were trying to get the Dateline stuff together--he did some reseacrh and found out that the particular hospital where jason may have been taken to was miles out of the way for WTBS and also has a closed file policy on public records. hmmmmmmmm

    the last I heard, the mother had been contacted by Silentlambs and she denied ever even having a son named Jason! so someone got paid off.

    It is a moot point with me now. This is just the tip of the iceberg of my 34 years experience in the Borg. If I wrote it all down it would read like a VC Andrews saga. (and it IS written down!) Which I do plan on publishing as soon as my mother is gone. I don't want to hurt her anymore and she is old now.

    Ravyn

  • Adonai438
    Adonai438

    OMGosh, what a story!

    It is absolutely amazing that you have come through all this! What strong character you posses and beautiful spirit. I am so sorry for all the pain the WT causes in all these lives. I left after a crisis of conscience too of being told to lie but I have found that it is an amazing world out there and that truth isn't elusive, complicated or hard to find with an open mind-- unlike the WT taught us.

    Nice to meet you and I'm here if you ever need or want to talk: [email protected] <><Angie (23, happily married, mommy to a 2 year old boy, out of the WT now for 7+ years, and have a ministry to JWs & cults. I left at age 15 when I read the Bible for myself and the elders told me to lie about what I believed- I said I wouldn't lie and they had me kicked out of my home.)

  • JamesThomas
    JamesThomas

    Thank you for that Ravyn. It's just amazing. It's one of the stories that leaves one speechless. JamesT

  • Sentinel
    Sentinel

    I read your heartfelt story and I want to thank you for sharing it with us. I well know and understand that purging is a painfull process, but so necessary for healing. When I finally got with a good counselor, he said to me "..and what do you think is the real problem?"....and just as soon as I touched the subject of JW's, he picked up on it right away. As I spoke, the deepest pains began to re-surface and I shuddered in my sobs. Of course, I had other issues to work through as well. It took several sessions of this painful process before I could speak without breaking down. I had put all these things in a "holding place" deep inside for many years, and the time had come to let it all out. Life changed after that--so much for the better.

    You probably feel like an entirely "new" person now. In many ways you are.

  • acsot
    acsot

    Holy Sh&t! What a story! You have survived an unbelievable journey; what courage and compassion you've displayed! Thank you for sharing that. What a horrid, freaking cult the WTS has spawned.

    (((Ravyn)))

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