Take Back Your Life - Chapter 1

by Lady Lee 22 Replies latest members private

  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee

    From the forthcoming book Take Back Your Life: Recovering from Cults and Abusive Relationships by Janja Lalich and Madeleine Tobias" NEW TITLE of Captive Hearts Captive Minds Chapter 1
    Cults and Cultic Relationships . What we are going to look at this week is the whole issue of what makes a cult a cult. So many of us have been affected by the WTS' control over our lives. I remember reading the article the WTS published saying they weren't a cult. Like most of their arguments, I believed it at the time. But since then I have realized their their argument is full of holes.

    I think it is hard to acknowledge the full impact that the WTS had over our lives. One of the things I cherish is control over my life. Accepting how little control I had was an important step to making sure I never get into another situation like this, whether in a group or in a relationship with one person. In my case the "other person" was parents, friends and husbands and of course the WTS. I don't ever want to go down this road again so I better learn something about this experience. People don't usually know much about cults. The last thing they think is that they are joining one. Even those who have been in for a long time would deny that their group was a cult. The book Take Back Your Life: Recovering from Cults and Abusive Relationships the authors express the need for education about cults. They state:

    Many former members read just about everything they can get their hands on about cults. (p. 12)

    So many posters here have become more avid students of the WTS now than we ever were while we were in. I used to hate studying. Now I can't get enough. Some of the basic things we need to know will be covered in the material from the first chapter of the book. According to the authors a cult is:

    Cult: A group or movement exhibing great or excessive devotion or dedication to some person, idea, ot thing, and employing unethical manipulative or coercive techniques of persuasion and control (e.g., isolation from former friends and family, debilitation, use of special methods to heighten suggestibility and subservience, powerful group pressures, information management, suspension of individuality or critical judgement, promotion or total dependency on the group and fear of leaving it), designed to advance the goals of the group's leaders, and to the actual or possible detriment of members, their families, or the community. (p. 12)

    I don't know about you but I see the WTS all over that. I can't say there is one part that doesn't fit. But the authors go on to describe three characteristics that define cults.

    1. Members are expected to be excessively zealous and unquestioning in their commitment to the identity and leadership of the group. They must replace their own beliefs and values with those of the group.
    2. Members are manipulated and exploited, and may give up their education, careers, and families to work excessively long hours at group-directed tasks such as selling a quota of candy or books, fund-raising, recruiting, and proselytizing.
    3. Harm or the threat of harm may come to members, their families, and/or society due to inadequate medical care, poor nutrition, psychological and physical abuse, sleep deprivation, criminal activities, and so forth. (p. 13)

    JWs are told to be more zealous. And most JWs get the message as soon as they are baptized that questionning the WTS is the equivalent of questionning God Himself. One of the questions the elders now ask is "Do you still believe the WTS is God's channel?" or words to that effect. Despite that the WTS says they are not perfect they still insist JWs accept every word they print and say.

    I remember all those talks to do more and the finger pointing that we weren't doing enough. And no matter how much you did it was never enough. I remember the magazines and talks that told us not to "jump ahead" and "wait on Jehovah." If you had any dreams for a future you were always reminded that the end was coming so don't bother with a career. I wanted to be a counselor and remember being told that in the new system there would be no use for counselors, or doctors, or dentists and so on. We would all be perfect and not need these things.

    When I got pregnant for my first child my mother told me that I was crazy for getting pregnant because if the end came I would have to run to the mountains to hide carrying a young child with me. (This was pre-75 and my baby would be 3 by 1975). So in spite of being already pregnant she thought I should be out pioneering.

    Something I really hated was keeping the kids up on those late night meeting nights. Once my husband was an elder it was rare for us to get home much before 11 pm. Then you had to fight with them to get them up in the morning and somehow get the homework done. I felt like I was raising the girls alone. He was at work during the day and on service every night there wasn't meetings. And still finding ways to "do more".

    I know people who put off getting some medical issues taken care of (one needed a new heart but the WTS said it was a form of cannibalism so he didn't have the surgery. And yes, he died). And I had my scare with the blood doctrine when my second child was born. When I was severely depressed and making my plan to commit suicide all I heard from my husband and the elders was to pray more, get to meetings and get out in service.

    Now there's that part in point 3 regarding "criminal activities". I would have said yes even a few weeks ago. But after looking at the child custody brochure and the condensed version of the blood article I wouls have to say that this does apply. JWs are taught how to respond to legal authorities and to outright lie about the lifestyle of JW children. It is the WTS that publishes information that tells people that "worldly" courts or people do not deserve the real truth about some matters and that it is OK to lie, all in the name of "theocratic warfare".

    Categories of Cults There are so many scales and ways to look at cults and cultic groups. The authors of the book discuss the wide variety of cults. The aspects of cults that we are focussed on is the bahvior rather than the beliefs. So it doesn't really matter what they teach. How they do it is the problem. The authors make note of a wide range of groups they would consider to be cults. Not all of the groups would use the same behavior controls.

    • Eastern meditation
    • Religious
    • Political, racist, terrorist
    • Psychotherapy/human potential (mass transformational)
    • Commercial
    • New Age
    • Occult, satanic, black magic
    • One-on-one
    • Miscellaneous, or cult of personality

    As you can see from the list there is a wide variety of groups that fall into the category of "cult" because of their behaviors. I'm not going to go into a description of each one. Under religious it says:

    Religious: marked by belief in salvation, afterlife, sometimes combined with an apocalyptic view. The leader reinterprets the Scriptures and often claims to be a prophet if not the messiah. Often the group is strict, sometimes using physical punishments such as paddling and birching, especially on children. Members are encouraged to spend a great deal of time proselytizing. (Note: included here are Bible-based neo-Christian and other religious cults, many considered syncretic since they combine beliefs and practices). Techniques used: speaking in tongues, chanting, praying, isolation, lengthy study sessions, amny hours spent evangelizing, "struggle" or criticism) and confession sessions. (p.15)

    I see a lot of the WTS in this. Do you?

    The book goes on to list identifying marks of a cult by the Clinical Psychologist Dr. Margaret Singer. Singer has a list of 8 criteria that identify cults.

    1. Cults are authoritarian in their power structure.
    2. Cults tend to be totalitarian in their control of the behavior of their members.
    3. Cults tend to have double sets of ethics [one for the leader and another for the members; one for those inside the group, another for dealing with outsiders].
    4. Cult leaders are self-appointed and claim to have a special mission in life.
    5. Cult leaders tend to be charismatic, determined, and domineering.
    6. Cult leaders center the veneration of members upon themselves.
    7. Cults appear to be innovative and exclusive.
    8. Cults basically have only two purposes: recruiting new members and fund-raising.

    What do you see in here? Does it fit with your experience with the WTS? What doesn't fit? Do you have any examples? I know I used to think they didn't all apply to the WTS. I think differently now.

  • Lady Lee
  • Big Tex
    Big Tex
    1. Members are expected to be excessively zealous and unquestioning in their commitment to the identity and leadership of the group. They must replace their own beliefs and values with those of the group.
    2. Members are manipulated and exploited, and may give up their education, careers, and families to work excessively long hours at group-directed tasks such as selling a quota of candy or books, fund-raising, recruiting, and proselytizing.
    3. Harm or the threat of harm may come to members, their families, and/or society due to inadequate medical care, poor nutrition, psychological and physical abuse, sleep deprivation, criminal activities, and so forth. (p. 13)

    Actually I see this mindset in another thread you started aimed at a self-proclaimed Witness. It never ceases to amaze me at the lengths these types will go to in order to avoid questioning the Mother Organization.

    But really it's about fear, isn't it? Fear of anything that endangers their safe, secure little world of simple answers for complex problems. I really do see fear as the basis for Witnesses who attack those who question or leave. I see them consumed with fear, sometimes treating those who question harshly as a way to answer their OWN doubts and questions.

    As for point #2, well I was an honors student in high school and gave up a 4 year scholarship all in order to pioneer. It's my own fault, and I accept responsibility for my stupidity. I was naive enough to believe ridiculous lies and half-truths because I wanted the message to be true. I wanted the payoff that they sold. I see that sometimes now with Witnesses, although not nearly as much as those who just blindly, unquestioningly obey.

    Chris

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    I don't know if feature 3 is overtly obvious with the Witnesses.

    Harm or the threat of harm may come to members, their families, and/or society due to inadequate medical care, poor nutrition, psychological and physical abuse, sleep deprivation, criminal activities, and so forth.

    JW's are not flooding subway tunnels with lethal gas, for instance.

    But I do see long-term detriment, especially emotional and psychological, for Witnesses. They cut themselves off from all but JW relations. Those JW relations threaten to cut themselves off if zeal is not maintained. And of course, they believe that all non-Witnesses will experience literal death, with no hope of resurrection. So what do they have to look forward to? Drudgery within, and death without.

    Today, for instance, there was yet another talk on the Noah example. Yet congregation members were exhorted to "take care of your health" because who knows how long this current system will continue. Then of course, a prayer that this old world please last not much longer. I wonder how such talks affect the older ones who have lived through failed dates and fading promises.

  • Scully
    Scully

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/16/104967/1824362/post.ashx#1824362

    I posted in another thread the following quotes from M. Scott Peck's book People of the Lie. In this book the goal is trying to define evil and examine behaviour that can be categorized as evil.

    Here is the excerpt from my post:

    Evil is in opposition to life. It is that which opposes the life force. It has, in short, to do with killing. Specifically, it has to do with murder - namely, unnecessary killing, killing that is not required for biologic survival.

    Further on he continues:

    When I say that evil has to do with killing, I do not mean to restrict myself to corporeal murder. Evil is also that which kills spirit. There are various essential attributes of life - particularly human life - such as sentience, mobility, awareness, growth, autonomy, will. It is possible to kill or attempt to kill one of these attributes without actually destroying the body. Thus we may "break" a horse or even a child without harming a hair on its head. Erich Fromm was acutely sensitive to this fact when he broadened the definition of necrophilia to include the desire of certain people to control others - to make them controllable, to foster their dependency, to discourage their capacity to think for themselves, to diminish their unpredictability and originality, to keep them in line. Distinguishing it from a "biophilic" person, one who appreciates and fosters the variety of life forms and the uniqueness of the individual, he demonstrated a "necrophilic character type," whose aim it is to avoid the inconvenience of life by transforming others into obedient automatons, robbing them of their humanity. [Erich Fromm, The Heart of Man: Its Genius for Good and Evil (Harper & Row, 1964).]
    Evil, then, for the moment, is that force, residing either inside or outside human beings, that seeks to kill life or liveliness. And goodness is its opposite. Goodness is that which promotes life and liveliness.
    • Does the WTS desire to control others? (check)
    • Does the WTS wish to keep its followers controllable? (check)
    • Does the WTS foster dependency in its followers? (check)
    • Does the WTS discourage the individual's capacity to think for themselves? (check)
    • Does the WTS diminish individuals' unpredictability and originality? (check)
    • Does the WTS desire to keep its followers in line? (check)

    How many times have we heard experiences related here that depict individual JWs as obedient automatons, who lack common empathy and humanity and natural affection for others?

    When you consider the essentials of life - in terms of personal growth, autonomy and free will - that one must relinquish in order to remain a JW, then yes, absolutely, they are a suicide cult. They kill a person's potential, making them believe that what awaits them in the New Systemâ„¢ will more than compensate them for the sacrifices they make in the here and now while they give over their time and resources to the WTS.

    I don't want to detract from Lee's discussion of the book she is working from, but those quotes of Peck's are quite fitting, and are worth thinking about as we work toward "taking back our lives".

  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee

    Chris

    But really it's about fear, isn't it? Fear of anything that endangers their safe, secure little world of simple answers for complex problems. I really do see fear as the basis for Witnesses who attack those who question or leave. I see them consumed with fear, sometimes treating those who question harshly as a way to answer their OWN doubts and questions

    The sauying "I think thou doest protest too much" comes to mind. If a person can even begin to acknowledge that something is wrong within the WTS I think they would have to fight tooth and nail to prove what they havew put all their faith in is really correct. People give up everything for the WT paradise. It is such a huge fight. It has to be. Who would want to admit they were conned for so long. I've been out for 20 years. For the first 10 I still believed everything I was taught from the pages of the WT. It was shattering to let that first piece of information confirm my worst fears. No wonder they fight so hard in here.

    I was an honors student in high school and gave up a 4 year scholarship all in order to pioneer. It's my own fault, and I accept responsibility for my stupidity. I was naive enough to believe ridiculous lies and half-truths because I wanted the message to be true. I wanted the payoff that they sold. I see that sometimes now with Witnesses, although not nearly as much as those who just blindly, unquestioningly obey.

    Chris You are not responsible for the lies. You are not responsible for the conjob that was palyed on us. We weren't stupid. Heck you won a scholarship. They don't hand those out to dummies or to stupid people. I suspect that like me you beleived the end was coming and felt the pressure to live for the dream. And it was a nice dream. Didn't we all hope for the payoff? We were systematically fed a bunch of lies tied up in pretty books and told we were special. We would be saved when the end came - well if we did enough.

    If someone conned one of your kids would you sit there and blame the child?

    Come on Chris. I know you wouldn't and I'm not above using those kinds of arguments to burst your self-blame bubble when needed..

    Now smile cuz I love seeing you here.

  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee

    jgnat

    But I do see long-term detriment, especially emotional and psychological, for Witnesses.

    The stress alone of the JW lifestyle is enough to cause so many emotional and pychological problems Those who become JWs and already have these problems only get worse.

    They cut themselves off from all but JW relations. Those JW relations threaten to cut themselves off if zeal is not maintained.

    The isolation is tremendous. I knew when I left there was another DFed person around. I saw him at the mall often (he lived next door to the mall and seemed to hang out there a lot). But the elders told me not to talk to active JWs. And when I was an active JW I wasn't supposed to talk to those who were DFed. So I didn't. Talk about isolation. I had one person that I knew well enough to give me some support. 1. Not one family member would support me despite that they knew about my husbands 15 years of abuse. They didn't even want to know. So much for love and "making sure of all things"

    And of course, they believe that all non-Witnesses will experience literal death, with no hope of resurrection. So what do they have to look forward to? Drudgery within, and death without.

    If the family is "in" they really don't have a lot to look forward to. And then of course there is the well-worn phrase "But where else should we go?"

    Today, for instance, there was yet another talk on the Noah example. Yet congregation members were exhorted to "take care of your health" because who knows how long this current system will continue. Then of course, a prayer that this old world please last not much longer.

    A perfect example of "Stay alert" and we might be here for a while but stay alert...

    I wonder how such talks affect the older ones who have lived through failed dates and fading promises.
    I think they have a collective amnesia for those things. If the WT says people just accidentally and wrongly came to certain conclusions the JWs will buy into the rewritten history. A classic 1984 rewritting skill
  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee

    Scully

    I don't want to detract from Lee's discussion of the book she is working from, but those quotes of Peck's are quite fitting, and are worth thinking about as we work toward "taking back our lives".

    No. Anything we can bring in to shed more light on this the better.

    Evil is also that which kills spirit.

    I have never thought of it this way. But wow. How many times have I heard that parents need to break the spirit of a willful child! My elder/husband used to say this about the girls.

    There are various essential attributes of life - particularly human life - such as sentience, mobility, awareness, growth, autonomy, will. It is possible to kill or attempt to kill one of these attributes without actually destroying the body. Thus we may "break" a horse or even a child without harming a hair on its head.

    sentience, mobility, awareness, growth, autonomy, will The WTS tries to control all of those aspects of a person.

    Erich Fromm was acutely sensitive to this fact when he broadened the definition of necrophilia to include the desire of certain people to control others - to make them controllable, to foster their dependency, to discourage their capacity to think for themselves, to diminish their unpredictability and originality, to keep them in line.

    again wow things to ponder

    Distinguishing it from a "biophilic" person, one who appreciates and fosters the variety of life forms and the uniqueness of the individual, he demonstrated a "necrophilic character type," whose aim it is to avoid the inconvenience of life by transforming others into obedient automatons, robbing them of their humanity. [Erich Fromm, The Heart of Man: Its Genius for Good and Evil (Harper & Row, 1964).]

    what an apt description of the life I had as a JW.

    Thanks again for bringing this in. Good stuff

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Striking a chord.

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/9/105364/1.ashx

    I'm going to save all the thoughts that come from our discussion.

  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee

    Thanks for the link jg

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