A Secret about DF'ing that Elders will not tell you.

by Amazing 48 Replies latest jw friends

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    One of the big issues affecting ex-JWs is being shunned by their close relatives. This can be especially painful for parents, children or siblings. The JW relative may even make some exceptions to associate in the name of "necessary" business, but then later on their conscience "pricks" them, and they realize that they have pushed the envelope too much and they withdraw their association altogether ... OR ... the Society comes out with some article or the CO comes to town, and manage to ding on some issue that make JWs feel guilty about associating with DF'd and DA'd relatives.

    A Secret that ex-JWs want and may need to know: This is something that Elders will not openly tell you. But once armed with this secret information, you have some power to possibly moderate your relationships with your JW relatives who will listen to you. Let's hope this helps:

    The Elder manual, "Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock", coded ks-91E, published by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc., in Unit 5(a), "Overseers 'Ruling for Justice Itself', under the sub-heading "Proper View of Disfellowshipped and Disassociated Persons, the bolded lead-in sentance says, "The principle set forth in Jesus' words at Matthew 10:34-38 has a bearing on situations involving disfellowshipped or disassociated relatives," then goes on to state in the last paragraph of Page 103:

    "Normally, a close relative would not be disfellowshipped for associating with a disfellowshipped person unless there is spiritual association of an effort made to justify or excuse the wrongful course."

    The instruction is clear and not modified by notes in any Elder schools since its publication in 1991. There are no other contextual modifiers. The following page goes on to make allowance for giving a Bible talk at a funeral of the DF'd person. This information, therefore, stands current in 2003 as is.

    The explicite Watchtower instruction is very clear. As long as the ex-JW and JW agree that they will not try to engage in "spiritual association" or do anything that would be taken as trying to undermine the active JWs faith in the religion, or excuse the ex-JW course in leaving the religion, then the JW is free to associate according to this instruction from the Faithful and Discreet Slave Class. It just cannot get simpler or plainer than that folks.

    If your JW relative is not trustful of this information, just have him/her talk with the PO, or any fine upstanding Elder, and have him bring out his copy of the ks-91 "Flock" or "Pay Attention" book as some call it, and read it for themselves. This may also cause your close JW relative to question why Elders are given secretive material not available to the general rank and file JW population, and why this little provision is NOT disclosed to them in the last 12 years ... or actually long before that since this publication has been around a while longer ... since 1977.

    As a BETTER alternative, your close JW relative can also write to the Watchtower Society's Service Department or call them at the Service Desk and ask about this instruction, and the Watchtower Society will certainly agree with their own material ... it is better, however, if your close JW relative can get it in written form via response from the Society. That way they can place it in the face of Elders who may question them for associating with you.

    Maybe this can put your JW relative's conscience at ease, and you and they can at least have some type of normal relationship. The "Flock" book is a fascinating book. Every JW should have a copy so they too can practice what is preached in private by the Watctower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. - Jim W. Visit Smiley Central!

    PS: Some below are arguing what is done in actual pracrice. In this post, I am not arguing about actual practice ... rather what the undisclosed, withheld, secretive information is ... and how being armed may allow """some""" JWs to relax their conscience. Comparably, in actual practice, JWs believe that they are NOT false prophets ... but by digging out information they published in their distant history that they are not normally exposed to, we can show otherwise ... and as a result "some" JWs leave the religion. The objective here is to show how "some" JWs might use the Watchtower published material to their own advantage.

  • ozziepost
    ozziepost

    Sorry Jim, to disappoint but this is yet another instance of the Borg saying one thing and doing another in practice.

    I know 'cos it's happened. The branch will bring pressure to bear on the relatives to have no association at all. In our case, a Bethel rep was sent to us (I refused to attends Bethel) to inform us "And don't forget, we've got your kids". And that's the way it was.

    It certainly is a curious paragraph though in the ks book. A secret? Sure. But no comfort I'm afraid.

    Cheers, Ozzie

  • Amazing
    Amazing
    Sorry Jim, to disappoint but this is yet another instance of the Borg saying one thing and doing another in practice.

    BUT ... they did say it ... they published it in print ... so while what you say may be true ... some JWs only need a minor excuse in written form to make that leap of conscience ... and if it helps some, then this can be that tool. That is my point. Also, for those JWs who write to the Society for "clarification," they may discover a wolf is hiding in those sheep-skin suits ... and may choose to leave the religion too ... paving the way for full association with their DF'd relatives. - Jim W.

  • Shakita
    Shakita

    Jim:

    Thanks for the info.....I might need this in the future.

    Maybe it all comes down to how loyal the family member of the df'd person is to the society. If they are hardliners, then the counsel from the elders to not associate will be taken to the letter. But, if they tend to use their own conscience as their guide, I think that they will be more apt to disregard all the shunning advice and still have contact with their friends and relatives.

    Ozzie:

    I am so sorry.

    Mrs. Shakita

  • garybuss
    garybuss

    The Spokane Spokesman

    October 5th 1996

    Ex-Jehovah's Witnesses tackle custody issue
    Weekend conference first to address legal difficulties of leaving the sect

    By Kelly McBride
    Staff writer

    Former Jehovah's Witnesses are gathering in Spokane this weekend to discuss child custody disputes and other bitter results of leaving the apocalyptic religious sect.

    "The trauma of leaving this church is so destructive that people often implode or explode," said Jim Penton, a retired religion professor and ex-Witness. "There is a lot of breakdown, emotional and spiritual."

    While former church members have met to commiserate for years, this conference is the first to address the legal difficulties encountered during divorce and custody proceedings.

    "It's becoming _the_ issue for people who have left the church but still want to have some say in the way their children are raised, said Penton, who is among the few dozen people attending the conference. "The church can be pretty ruthless. They train children to alienate non-Witness parents."

    Richard Rawe, a Soap Lake, Wash., resident excommunicated from the church in 1977, has been helping other ex-Witnesses since then. He said he is increasingly contacted by parents frustrated by their dealings with the church during legal proceedings.

    "The church has a gaggle of about 60 attorneys which they will dispatch to members who need legal assistance," Rawe said. "It doesn't make a very even playing field."

    Merton Campbell, a Jehovah's Witness spokesman in Brooklyn, N.Y., would not comment on Rawe's allegations. Local church authorities also declined to comment.

    Campbell and other church leaders, though, said they didn't know about the sponsors of the conference, Bible Research and Commentary International, whose board is composed entirely of former paid church officers.

    Church officials said they never advocate their followers violate court orders or state laws. But they acknowledged their doctrine of shunning former members leaves little room for non-Witness parents in the lives of children who are active in the church.

    Jehovah's Witnesses tell children they can associate with their non-Witness parents until they are adults, said Campbell. But once they become adults, they must choose between continuing that association or remaining part of the church.

    "We believe that we are obeying what the Bible has to say on that," Campbell said.

    ***

  • Gadget
    Gadget

    They may not be DF'd for asssociating with a DF'd person, but there are different ways of doing things. The threat of losing priviledges, being marked out as a bad associate in the congregation, etc, can have just as much an impact to make the person want to cut off contact with a DF'd person.

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    HI Gadget,

    The threat of losing priviledges, being marked out as a bad associate in the congregation, etc, can have just as much an impact to make the person want to cut off contact with a DF'd person.

    True. However, since it is made clear in the "Flock" book that a person is not to be DF'd for associating with a close relative, as long as there is no attempt at 'spiritual' association, then the Elders are hard pressed to take other actions. Normally, loss of privileges and marking is done for those who are on the edge of being DF'd themselves for prohibited conduct and their repentance saves them, but they lose privileges as punishment ... in this case, no wrong is committed, and no punishment should be made. - Jim W.

  • Gadget
    Gadget
    in this case, no wrong is committed, and no punishment should be made.

    Thats the official line, but how does it work in practice, especially if you not one of the 'in crowd' in the cong.

  • OICU8it2
    OICU8it2

    Thanks. I am thankful my daughter left before me, but I still work with a few.

  • metatron
    metatron

    I won't say this is meaningless -- but it may almost be

    Elders can DF you whenever they feel like - for whatever reason they care to trump up - the Society will not intervene

    or change anything, period. In effect, no rules apply, it's just arbitrary with a smokescreen of lies to it all up.

    I would like someone to prove me wrong about the above - further, I think they may have become harder and MORE

    EXPEDIENT in recent years. In Knorr's day, they actually got legalistic about their OWN regulations - now that's all

    gone as far as I can tell.

    metatron

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