BEAT that Child!

by Farkel 49 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Farkel

  This is sort of a continuation of threads on dubs and how they are conditioned to discipline their children. Someone questioned whether the society actually encouraged dubs to whup their children. I only had enough time to dig up a few salient quotes from the WT magazine. There are many others, including one where Fred Franz stated that some hard whacks to the backside was the best "medicine" of all. I wrote an article on this years ago, with a whole litany of WT quotes, but alas, did not save it.

  I've seen enough children smacked and slugged and pinched and whupped in the Kingdom Halls to know that is EXACTLY what the WTS has encouraged. These are older quotes, and as I said, I haven't the time to dig out newer ones. Remember, the collective conscienceness of dubs takes a long time to change, even after the society has dropped or softened one restriction or another. How many dubs still think giving to charities or seeing a psychologist is somehow still "wrong?" How many children are still routinely whupped during a meeting, or taken to the bathroom or outside the Hall during a meeting and beaten?

  *** w54 1/15 49 Rearing Children in the New World Society ***
  Recently a leading New York newspaper ran a series on teen-age crime and gang wars, and, after noting the rise of progressive methods of child training that all but discard discipline, said: "Many of those fighting teen-age crime are convinced this lack of discipline is to blame for many children refusing to accept normal standards of behavior." J. Edgar Hoover has investigated the causes of juvenile delinquency and claims ninety per cent of it is traceable to lack of parental discipline. A Brooklyn court judge contributes this caustic comment: "I think we need the woodshed for some young folks. But that is not considered fashionable now. Now we are told you must not strike a child; you may be stunting a genius."

  6 But is there springing up around us a bumper crop of unstunted geniuses? Rather are we not reaping a record harvest of juvenile delinquents?

  Here the society has plainly implied that unless children are whupped, they will be a "harvest" of juvenile delinquents.

  *** w54 1/15 54 Disciplining Children for Life ***
  That brings us to discipline, and forces a facing of that hotly controversial question: to spank or not to spank.

  2 Many child psychologists put a "hands off" sign on children, as did one who said: "Do you mothers realize that every time you spank your child you show that you are hating your child?" Jehovah says: "He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is diligent to discipline him." A spanking may be a lifesaver to a child, for Jehovah says: "Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you beat him with a rod, he will not die. If you beat him with the rod you will save his life from Sheol." Again, "Blows that wound cleanse away evil; strokes make clean the innermost parts."

  In other words, BEAT THAT CHILD!

  *** w54 1/15 55 Disciplining Children for Life ***
  So it is with children. Some are more sensible than others; some are meeker than others. A rebuke may discipline them more than a whipping would others who are more stubborn and in whose childish heart may be bound up a more than usual amount of folly.

  5 Parents, if this is the case with your child, be patient.

  So, if your kid is "meek," then rebuke him. Otherwise BEAT THE HELL OUT OF HIM.

  *** w54 1/15 57-62 Disciplining Children for Life ***
  If you children have been the subjects of our discussion, it is because you are the objects of our affection. All right, you say, but if you grownups are so fond of us what is all this talk about discipline, and especially spanking? Well, with you children that does touch a tender spot, does it not? But to help us get to the bottom of the matter let us look at the animals that you children love. Jehovah's wisdom is reflected in his creations, so to look to animals for instruction is not to lower our thinking to their level, but to lift it to God's thoughts...

  "Remember children, we love you, but:
  
  18 There is no juvenile delinquency in the animal realm, because there are no delinquent animal mothers. They do not spare the paw and spoil the young, but spank to preserve the young. They would die fighting for their young, just as your parents would die for you; yet they spank their young, just as your parents may spank you. In the woods the first mistake is often the last, and if the young animals disobeyed their mothers they would become the main course on a woodland menu and end up in another animal's stomach. So, while it may not be pleasant for them to be spanked, it is better to be beaten than to be eaten...

  "Animals beat their young, therefore, so can we."

  27 You parents know what you must do. You children know what you must do. Jehovah knows what he will do. If we obey him, he will do things for us. If we disobey him, he will do things to us.

  WOW! We have the triple whammy here! Parents: you MUST beat the shit out of your children, or Jehovah will KILL you. Children: you must take it, or Jehovah will KILL you.

  *** w56 5/15 305-6 Youth in the New World Society ***
  5 As an illustration of child rule in the home, this occurred in a Christian home. The child pleaded and raised a fuss about a certain type of food it wanted and did this in a demanding way. The mother yielded and prepared the food. When the food was set before the child he decided he did not want it after all. The mother coaxed, but when the child feigned illness the mother took the food away. Under his breath the child was heard to say: "Well, I really got out of that one!" In this instance there was no discipline and the child was developing the trait of selfishness and was becoming self-centered. Parents may not always realize it, but children test them too. An instance to show this occurred when a four-year-old boy, when his food was set before him, threw it on the floor when the mother stepped out of the room. A mild scolding resulted, whereupon the mother placed more food before him. This was treated similarly in the absence of the mother. It was explained to him that some day he would be grown and would have children of his own, and, when asked what he would do if his child threw his food on the floor, he unhesitatingly responded: "I would whip him." He knew what was right and that proper corrective measures should have been administered. From an educational viewpoint he must have been somewhat disappointed in his parents. Children in similar circumstances could not look to their parents as a proper example of rearing children.

  Beat, beat, BEAT that child, folks! They WANT you to beat the crap out of them. If you DO NOT DO THIS, they will be "disappointed" in you! What idiocy!

  *** w56 10/15 637 Children Respond to Discipline ***
  Children Respond to Discipline

  A mother writes regarding her efforts at training four children: "I thought I had tried everything, as the saying goes, to make my children behave, still they were rebellious and antagonistic in our everyday relations. I had been a witness of Jehovah for five years, but my husband was violently opposed and I was forbidden to read any of the Watch Tower publications to the children. When it was stressed that it was the parents' responsibility to see that children had daily Bible instruction I decided to set aside time for daily Bible reading. This raised a howl of protest from my boys, ages 7, 5 and 3, as it always seemed to come at their most enjoyable time. After the account of creation they lost interest and the howls grew louder as I turned off the television every night and announced it was time for Bible reading. Many times I sat with the Bible in one hand and the rod of correction in the other..."

  I'm sure that child grew up to be a well-adjusted psyhopathic child-abuser himself.

  Farkel

  "When in doubt, duck!"
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  WildHorses

  "Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you beat him with a rod, he will not die"

  I sure do remember having that verse shoved in my face. I admit I have spanked my children in the past but surley not for things such as making noise in the KH, which I was told I should have done. They had to have done something major for a spanking, and then certianly not with a wooden spoon as suggested by one Elder in my Hall. Now I find they do not need spankings but just a good talking to and grounding if nessecery.

  "I don't want someone in my life I can live with, I want someone in my life I can't live without."
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  Nathan Natas

  Lilacs reminded us:

  "Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you beat him with a rod, he will not die"

  Stupid bible writers didn't know about one inch thick electrical power cables.
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  paulvarjak

  You remember the song about children being precious gifts?

  "They are gifts from God...
  He says use the rod..."

  I remember my father pausing during a public talk, saying "Excuse me" to the audience, coming off stage and giving my brother and I a couple of good swats to the backside, then going back on the platform and continuing as if nothing had happened.

  I gave a public talk about 5 years ago in a hall and this elderly sister comes up afterward and says "I remember when you were a boy, your dad used to spank your behind right on the front row..."

  Fark, reading those WT quotes made me ill.

  paul
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  Norm

  Yeah Farkel,

  Beat the evil out of your child, is the commandment from Jehovah:

  And take a look at the text around that picture:

  *** w63 8/15 497 Each One Will Render an Account ***
  7 If parents are to render a good account to God for the way they bring up their children, they must apply Jehovah’s discipline in love but with firmness. This calls for a positive discipline, not a lazy kind in which parents bribe their children into good behavior. Firm discipline means that there will be no parental pussyfooting. The child needs to know what his parents stand for and that they cannot be shaken from Jehovah’s principles by any amount of arguing, wheedling or crying. Though firm, Jehovah’s discipline is applied in love, so that it is consistent, reasonable and righteous. The loving parent realizes that children are not perfect and will make mistakes. If children are badgered by threats of punishment for every little imperfection, little mistake or accident, then they become irritated. Paul said: “Do not be exasperating your children, so that they do not become downhearted.” (Col. 3:21) If children are exasperated by their parents, they become nervously deranged and cannot benefit from reproof. Hence the loving parent, though firm, is reasonable. The child can appreciate reasonableness. Make explanations to the childish mind. Then the child can go along with it, knowing that it is being led in the direction that Jehovah God directs.
  8 All children of Adam need correction, and at times firm discipline requires the rod, in the administration of pain. “Foolishness is tied up with the heart of a boy; the rod of discipline is what will remove it far from him.” (Prov. 22:15) Jehovah’s discipline is thus not a watered-down discipline such as that advised by some worldly authorities who would always hold back the rod. But the literal rod is what is basically meant at Proverbs 23:13, 14: “Do not hold back discipline from the mere boy. In case you beat him with the rod, he will not die. With the rod you yourself should beat him, that you may deliver his very soul from Sheol itself.” At times, then, a parent will need to speak to the child by the administration of pain. This pain, God’s Word assures us, is not going to kill the child; but it will have beneficial effects, protective benefits for the child, protecting “his very soul from Sheol.”

  Lovely environment for children, eh?

  Norm
• 

  conflicted

  I alluded to this in another thread, and rather than reitterate, I'm just gonna cut and paste:

  It's been hinted at, people have listed their experiences, and the WTS is already backpedalling and distancing themselves. I can only come to one conclusion: The WTS is a hotbed for abusive parents! I'm not going to compare this situation to pedophelia because it's completely different. With the molester the society just turns it's head and pretends it doesn't exist, with the abusers the society actually teaches, trains and supports the parents who do it!

  They preach about using the rod in discipline - and they don't mean as a measuring tool or a guide.

  They repeatedly use the scriptures about '40 strokes less one' and stoning incidents of children as examples in proper discepline.

  When parents put questions to the elders about proper discepline I, in my own experience, have never heard anything about talking to your children, grownding or taking away privelidges, or any other punishment other than spanking or beating. NEVER.

  Parents are always swatting kids in meetings and studies. The elders commend parents to make your children an example and not to let them be disruptive - they know what happens when someone takes their kids to the back - they did it themselves with their kids. What makes anyone think it's any better in their own homes where nobody is watching?

  The WTS are breeding abusers just as much, if not more, than they are hiding molesters.
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  NameWithheld

  This reminds me how my parents would constantly remind me that in old time Isreal I would have been stoned to death for <insert bad behaviour here>. No doubt made them feel better when whipping a young child. How loving that now god doesn't require parents to participate in casting a horrible death upon their children! Someone forgot to tell this freak of a father about that "new Light" though ...
• 

  Mindchild

  Thanks Farkel for bringing this to light. I do think they have mellowed out some on the offical line of beating kids but still the damage has been done to the earlier generations.

  What most people don't realize is that men who often beat their wives have themselves been beaten as a child. This doesn't justify beating anyone but harm you receive as a youngster can and often does express itself in later generations.

  My grandfather was a JW and he beat my father, and my father in turn beat me...this is the way it was passed down. It doesn't always have to happen this way but I think when religion gives the green light to excessive spanking and beating then it opens the flood gates to child abuse.

  Everyone should know that the abuse can go beyond physical attacks as well. I personally know of Witnesses who lock their kids in closets for an entire day at a time, who will make them go an entire day without eating for saying a negative remark about supper, and Witnesses who control and shelter their kids so much...they are completely disfunctional. This is abuse in a different way, but still abuse.

  I think you are right Conflicted...the WTS is breeding abusers.

  Skipper

  "The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves that we are underlings." - William Shakespeare
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  Prisca

  I used to get a good spanking from my Dad when I was a kid. If I was really naughty, he would use one of his belts on me. Thankfully he was kind enough not to use the buckle end.

  At the KH, my Dad was an elder and was used extensively in the small congregation we were in. If I was misbehaving during the meeting, and he was involved in a meeting part, he assigned another brother to take me outside for a spanking. I was only 4 or 5 at the time, but I still remember the hate I felt towards this brother for doing something that was supposed to be done by my parents.

  Thinking back now, I can see what a warped world the WTS is.
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  Bridgette

  Thanks, for the quotes, Fark. They can't say they do not condone or promote corporal punishment, or that this is an isolated case--there's simply too many of us that were beaten and abused as children growing up as Jehovah's Witnesses. There's a case for correlation if not causation, by this fact alone. Also at issue is their policy of not reporting suspected abuse IMMEDIATELY to the authorities. I keep thinking of the people who went to meetings with little Laree (by their own beliefs, they stand condemned before god for her death) Either they were too scared to call police over their suspicions, or more likely, I'm sad to say, THEY APPROVED, AND ARE DOING THE SAME THINGS TO THEIR CHILDREN.
  "This reminds me how my parents would constantly remind me that in old time Isreal I would have been stoned to death for <insert bad behaviour here>. "
  Hey, me too, Namewitheld! I heard it from the platform, MANY times. I don't want this issue to die until the "society" has taken responsibility for the abuse they've meted out (community responsibility), and even the deaths that resulted from their teachings. Sorry, Brooklyn, but you want that much control in people's lives, ya gotta pay the price, when they do what you tell them! And no backpeddling, there's too many of us out here who know your dirty secrets--APOLOGIES are in order. APOLOGIES. That means saying I'm sorry, we were wrong--IN WRITING. Then doing your best to make repairations. I still smell the stench of Laree's lifeless little body all over you and your organization. You shared in every life crushing blow.
  I've now shown this article to every person I could get my hands on, and left the internet page open to the Chicago Sun open on public computers in the hospital.
  Maybe health care workers can pick up on some of this crap, and do what the witnesses seem unwilling to do---REPORT ABUSE TO THE AUTHORITIES.

  Peace,
  Bridgette