Religious / philosophical exotism and cultural identity

by Narkissos 35 Replies latest jw friends

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  Leolaia

  It is interesting how much of the "Eastern" (or "Oriental", as the WTS likes to say) OT emphasizes the individual. Much of this is along the lines of individual faith and perserverance in the face of societal wickedness: examples like Noah, Lot (note how Abraham beseeches God to spare the cities if no less than ten righteous people are found in them), Job (who alone experiences his misery but must contend with not only his own conflicting feelings but also the naysayers around him), Rahab, etc. come to mind. And there are all the prophets who are individually commissioned to be Yahweh's messengers. The atoning of sin in the OT also has the sense of individual responsibility. I don't know how all this fits in with the discussion, but I think it should be pointed out....
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  Midget-Sasquatch

  Didier,

  You're definitely right about the larger culture being able to seep through into any subculture. It was and is clearly visible among younger JWs to the chagrin of many of their parents. I for one never minded the western influence on women's dress.

  Leolaia,

  Interesting. Coupling your observations with Ross's shows both approaches are present to some extent regardless of which is the predominant one for the culture. Is that just from the mixing of cultures or does that give us some hint as to our makeup? Maybe the two approaches (individualistic vs collective) are inherent frames of mind tweaked and offset within us by selective pressures, but the collective is one that needs greater social or cultural prodding to be expressed? I don't know....is it easier for an easterner to be westernized?
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  Pole

  :It is interesting how much of the "Eastern" (or "Oriental", as the WTS likes to say) OT emphasizes the individual.
  But in terms of socio-political issues Oriental societies seem to be much more vulnerable to totalitarianism.
  Pole
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  Narkissos

  It is interesting how much of the "Eastern" (or "Oriental", as the WTS likes to say) OT emphasizes the individual. Much of this is along the lines of individual faith and perserverance in the face of societal wickedness: examples like Noah, Lot (note how Abraham beseeches God to spare the cities if no less than ten righteous people are found in them), Job (who alone experiences his misery but must contend with not only his own conflicting feelings but also the naysayers around him), Rahab, etc. come to mind. And there are all the prophets who are individually commissioned to be Yahweh's messengers. The atoning of sin in the OT also has the sense of individual responsibility. I don't know how all this fits in with the discussion, but I think it should be pointed out....

  
  True.

  One misleading factor in Biblical studies is the false dichotomy (still another one) posited in the second half of the 20th century, namely Jerusalem vs. Athens as polar opposites. Actually both, in spite of their differences, belong to the same Mediterranean world which saw a remarkable emergence of subjective writing.

  Everywhere this is a gradual process: just as the Greek hero gains personal expression from the epic to the tragedy, the OT individual characters partly and gradually access to speech. Noah doesn't speak at all (I think), Rahab's talk is just what the narrative requires, and the (limited) pathos is produced by the narrative itself; otoh Jeremiah, Nehemiah, Job or Jonah profusely express their feelings, often in a context of social antagonism as you noted. Btw, they overwhelmingly do so in prayer: prayer seems to have been the first -- and to have long remained the only -- setting for personal expression in writing (Danel's plea in the Ugaritic legend is very moving already).

  Of course (I'm wary of sweeping generalisations now) this does not make Western civilisation a subjectivist one (there is no such thing). But if we are looking for some avatar of the sacred in Western culture it will sound like an individual human voice and look like an individual human face, with some pathos expression. (That's what struck me with the Graeco-Roman Buddhas).
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  onacruse

  What is the saying? Something like "History is the hill upon which we can stand and see the past, and predict the future."

  Realizing the continuity and contiguity of human behavior is one of the major realizations in my life, in contrast with my JW upbringing to think of myself (really, "ourselves") as unique.
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  Narkissos

  the continuity and contiguity of human behavior

  Nicely put.

  As Lacan said "there is no metalanguage," I am inclined to say that there is no metaphysics.